.38 Special and A#5: Case looks empty

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AFDoc

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I’ve been reloading rifle cartridges for a decade, but this is my first go at reloading pistol cartridges.

Compared to rifle cartridges, the 7.5gr charge I am throwing seems to result in a case that looks somewhat—how should I say this—wanting, unimpressive, lacking,... empty?

Please give me some reassurances here. Is there really this much room left in the case after a proper charge of A#5 powder?

Thanks for your time and assistance.
 
Not familiar with AA5 in particular, but with a 4.5gr charge of HP-38, there would be room to cram another 2 or 3 charges in there with catastrophic results. Note that the diminutive 9mm case allows for nearly the same velocity per bullet weight as the relatively cavernous .38 spl. This is the issue you will encounter with cartridges that made the transition from black powder to smokeless such as the .45 LC and others. Trail-boss is one powder that is formulated specifically to address this issue, creating more fill per weight. IMR 4227 is another, more suitable to small rifle rounds or magnum handgun.
 
It's not uncommon for case fill ratio to be very low in pistol cartridges.

The most significant effect is difficulty detecting double charges. You want to keep an eye on that, and consider that a high case fill ratio is a notable feature in a pistol powder.
 
"difficulty detecting double charges" I had a recent near miss on this and noted this elsewhere on the forum. It was .357 that i caught myself double charging not .38spl and all on that tray I took apart. No more double charges found . But my eyes are starting to go so i may have to stop loading those calibers . I did a quick" look see" on internet and didn't find trailboss available anywhere.
 
There's a lot of empty space in the 38 Special.
Yep, normal.

But it does have consequences, and some powders are somewhat to very position sensitive and many don't do well there.

AA #5 is a good choice for full power .38 Spl. Good stuff. W-231 is another long time favorite of .38 Spl reloaders.
 
My first reloads were .44 mag: 10gr Titegroup with a 240gr bullet. I couldn’t believe how much extra room there was in the case. You get more bang for you buck using the high energy fast pistol powders, but really watch out for those double charges.
 
I use unique and fill my 38 specials up half way. I think it's about 6gr and a 110gr bullet.
It's a real hot 38spl+p load but fine for a 357mag.
That may exceed the max charge for a 38spl+p.
I don't like loads that barely fill the case.
 
Compared to rifle cartridges, the 7.5gr charge I am throwing seems to result in a case that looks somewhat—how should I say this—wanting, unimpressive, lacking,... empty?
.

With the low case fill of smokeless powders in the 38 Special cases, you need to develop a plan to verify that you do not have double charges in the case.

Most folks that load with a single stage press will charge a loading block full of cases then visually check all the cases to verify the fill in all the cases is about the same. They look for double charges and missed charges.

Folks that use a progressive either visually check each case after dropping powder or use some kind of powder check die.

It is easy to fit a double charge of smokeless powder in the case and it will ruin your day if fired.
 
My plan is a double charge over flows the case or fills it all the way to the top.
(Not with AA5)
 
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I've had good results with Accurate # 5 in warm loaded 38 spl. but #5 is a very dense powder. Vv n-340 another option that I have had very good results with for warm loaded 38 spl. powder.pdf
 
I’m convinced that cartridges like 38 and 45 Colt are the reason that people used to do a cream-of-wheat load. I hear that it’s to save powder and therefor cut cost but I don’t see that as much as I see adding an inert filler.
 
Normal. My 45 loads with powders was anemic.

Gotta be a machine with your procedure. Moving to the next case. Always check visually over your completed set of charged, open cases. If in doubt, dump and recharge.

Cool thing about 10mm and 44 mag is they will overflow with a double charge. Much easier to clean up that mess. 44 is packed with almost any powder. 10mm not so much, but definitely over half.
 
Folks that use a progressive either visually check each case after dropping powder or use some kind of powder check die.
I use an RCBS turret press and the RCBS lockout die when loading .38 Special or .357 Magnum. It feels so good when I lower the handle and there is no resistance at the lockout die station. The extra station takes a little longer, but it is difficult to impossible to see bottom of the case or powder when the case is in the shellholder.
 
Please give me some reassurances here. Is there really this much room left in the case after a proper charge of A#5 powder?
Your fine! Well, that is if you know it’s 7.5gr. If you have a chrono you’ll also discover powder forward, powder level and powder back produce different velocities. Work out a process to avoid double/triple charges, and if you’re new to pistol reloading, avoid the very fast powders like Titegroup where it’s very difficult to even see it. Good luck!
 
Yes therez lots of room normally in a 38 special case. Also be aware of making extra light charges as they will put you in a squib category rather quickly when using certain bullets. My first squib was in a 38 special due to hard long bullet jackets.
 
Cool thing about 10mm and 44 mag is they will overflow with a double charge. Much easier to clean up that mess. 44 is packed with almost any powder. 10mm not so much, but definitely over half.[/QUOTE]

It really would depend on the powder used. If you “pack” a .44 with Titegroup, you will definitely run the risk of destroying the gun used to fire it.
 
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I fill the case with powder from the measure, scan it visually, then load the bullet next. I don’t have multiple cases sitting in a loading block or set aside where I may forget a step.

For revolvers I change a caliber or a recipe I weigh every charge for the first ten cases, then every fifth, then if all holds steady for five more checks I’ll weigh every twenty.

For rifle rounds, which I don’t load a large amount of, I weigh every charge. I feel there is too much pressure placed too close to my mug to skimp on that step.

While my routine is a bit slow, I don’t know how I can overcharge a case unless the powder measure fails and I miss the overcharge during my scan. I certainly don’t have anywhere near 600,000 reloads under my belt, but I’ve put together several tens of thousands of revolver and rifle rounds without an overcharge.

And yes, 2.7 gr Bullseye looks like a drop in the bucket rattling around the bottom of the .38 Spl. case... about the same is 5.5 Gr IMR Target in a .44 Spl. case... but if you really want to wonder where the powder went try finding 12 gr Unique hiding at the bottom a .45/70 case... under a 350 gr lead bullet it’s a great 1,100 FPS +\- plinking load.

Stay safe.
 
Oh my, I do know so well how you feel.
When I made my first 38 sepcial rounds - Hollow Base Wadcutters it was - I just couldn't believe what I saw in the long and narrow 38 special case.
Where is the powder? This must be a mistake!
Done different rifle calibers, 9 Para, 45acp before and thought I misread. Maybe they mean "grams" not "grain"

The 2,7gn of Bullseye I had trickled into the case were so stupid looking. You could almost see the primer shine through the powder.
But after looking in other load manuals I accepted it and it works.
One has to know that the 38 special started it's life as a blackpowder cartridge and although I never tried it I think the cartridge was well full with BP.
As the smokeless powders took over, things changed with this caliber.
So you really have to take care about double or maybe even tripple loads.
Prepare your brass, fill a whole loading-board (50) with powder and check. I use a pocket-light and check all cases twice.
Then seat all bullets.
My wife knows knows she is the power to interrupt me whatever I do, but when at this stage of reloading she leaves me undisturbed :)
 
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The 38 Special was originally a black powder cartridge. Since black powder produces so much less pressure vs. smokeless, the case had to be large. That is probably one reason Elmer Keith originally started loading 357 Mag in 38 Special cases, seating the bullet out an additional 1/8".
 
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