38 Special Berry's 148 gr. Plated DEWC

Personally, I'd flush seat that Berry wadcutter. I crimp all revolver loads, with the exception of flush-seated wadcutters. There's no crimp groove on the wadcutter, and the OAL you have it seated to looks pretty long for a wadcutter bullet - which has no ogive. Proof is in the shooting, but with that OAL for a wadcutter I would be concerned with seating issues in the cylinder throats and bullet "crimp" jump.

There's plenty of data available for flush seated 148/150 grain wadcutter bullets, and 750 fps out of a 4" barrel .38 Special is a mild load.
 
Yes, I have one in my range bag, it always goes.
Funny story about that — remember when pull-through bore snakes made a comeback? I guess it was around 1997/98…. Anyway, us British rifle enthusiasts knew about pull-throughs and cord wear so I stuck with solid rods for cleaning. A buddy and fellow reloader met up with me at the range yakking around about his 7mm and super lite loads. I told him his loads sounded way too low and be prepared, carry a stout cleaning rod, etc. Yup. He scoffed. First round stuck. Snake was useless, of course. He waited for a cold range and very sheepishly asked about my cleaning rod. 😂

Be prepared isn’t just for Scouting.
 
Please provide a bit more info so I can find this report.
Seating the wadcutters flush over a hefty charge of Unique gives me great results, but the possibility of overpressure is concerning . . .
It is, indeed! Every now and again, the report pops up. You might try Googling "NRA seating depth article, or similar.
 
Thanks for everyone’s responses. I’m going to load up a batch of both DEWC and HBWC with 3.2 grains of Titegroup and shoot them this weekend. I will seat them flush or close to it and probably use a 9mm taper crimp die. I don’t need much of a crimp because these will be fired in a bolt action rifle. Will use my GP 100 for the plunk test.

Please provide a bit more info so I can find this report.
Seating the wadcutters flush over a hefty charge of Unique gives me great results, but the possibility of overpressure is concerning . . .

crstrode: I think this might be what he is talking about:

IMG_4365.jpeg

Thanks,

Dan
 
Thanks for everyone’s responses. I’m going to load up a batch of both DEWC and HBWC with 3.2 grains of Titegroup and shoot them this weekend. I will seat them flush or close to it and probably use a 9mm taper crimp die. I don’t need much of a crimp because these will be fired in a bolt action rifle. Will use my GP 100 for the plunk test.



crstrode: I think this might be what he is talking about:

View attachment 1241138

Thanks,

Dan
That's the one I was thinking of, but couldn't find! Good information! 👍
 
The DEWC I have tried have been a little picky. The HBWC can be pushed with baby powder and shoot great as far as I can tell. I need to get some more Titegroup. It’s the most controversial powder that still gets burned by be the ton. If you’ve ever tried to use up a bottle of Titegroup, you know how impressive that is.
 
The all the rounds fired great and cleared the barrel with 3.2 grains of Titegroup!

We had so much fun shooting the first 50 DEWC that my son and I loaded up another 100 cartridges with a mix of DEWC and HBWC both forwards and backwards and fired them all over the weekend.

Every one cleared the barrel with 3.2 grains of Titegroup. Didn’t see much difference between DEWC or HBWC but we were not shooting paper. Just plinking.

I loaded a few HBWC backwards and fired them into 5 gallon buckets filled with water to check expansion but it really didn’t expand at all. The lead must be harder than the Hornady HBWC which I load backwards and use as a pest control load. I have attached a picture of the Berrys HBWC backwards and DEWC next to the Hornady lead HBWC I loaded previously with a mild load of Bullseye.

IMG_4393.jpeg

Not sure if the skirts are expanding on the HBWC. Will probably just buy DEWC next time. I like the fact that both ends of the Berry’s DEWC look exactly the same. On some other manufactures DEWC I have seen in the past the ends looks slightly different so you need to examine them to make sure you are loading them all the same direction.

None of the cases look sooty so they must be dealing well. And the the primers look good and are not flattened.



I should be safe to load these a little hotter right? Maybe 3.4 grains and eventually work up to 3.6 if no signs of over pressure. I know Titegroup is best with light loads so not looking to push the limits.

Thanks,

Dan IMG_4394.jpeg
IMG_4395.jpeg
 
I gotta try some more Titegroup. I and my Blackhawk really like the Berrys DEWC.

Just so you know, the upper limit of 38 Special won’t show pressure signs anyway. It’s not a high enough pressure round to flatten primers before you are past the limit already. 45 ACP is the same, and a few others. “Pressure signs” aren’t great indicators in handgun rounds in general.
 
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I should be safe to load these a little hotter right? Maybe 3.4 grains and eventually work up to 3.6 if no signs of over pressure. I know Titegroup is best with light loads so not looking to push the limits.
Hodgdon online shows a max of 3.3 for TG. Did you chrono your loads? Is there some reason you need to increase the charge?
TG’s a great powder if you stay within the lines. I would strongly recommend you do so. If you’re looking for more V, try a slower powder.
 
The all the rounds fired great and cleared the barrel with 3.2 grains of Titegroup!
——
Every one cleared the barrel with 3.2 grains of Titegroup. Didn’t see much difference between DEWC or HBWC but we were not shooting paper. Just plinking.
——
I should be safe to load these a little hotter right? Maybe 3.4 grains and eventually work up to 3.6 if no signs of over pressure. I know Titegroup is best with light loads so not looking to push the limits.

Thanks,

Dan
I’m not sure why the intense focus on “clearing the barrel” when you are 0.1gr (margin of error for most scales) below the maximum powder charge. Was there a reason to think a DEWC at that charge might not clear the barrel? Were you thinking it might be enough to cause a separation of the HBWC? I’m not sure why the need to go past safe limits with a target load but 3.6gr is definitely well into the danger zone.

If you want a maximum velocity load, switch to a maximum velocity bullet. Also keep in mind that the bullet experiences both linear and rotational velocities. Just because one direction of motion is not unsafe or unstable doesn’t mean the other isn’t both unsafe and unstable.

Be careful with over loads. You’re not the only one who might get hurt.
 
I do not have any good reason to increase the charge up from 3.2 grains. It is working great just how it is so I will not increase it.

Unfortunately I do not have a chronograph. Really need to get one though. It would make reloading a lot more fun.

I always hear a lot of emphasis on not sticking a bullet in the barrel so it’s just something I probably focus on too much. I’ve shot some pretty light loads and still haven’t had one get stuck however.

Thanks so much everyone! I really appreciate all of you!

Dan
 
Hodgdon online shows a max of 3.3 for TG. Did you chrono your loads? Is there some reason you need to increase the charge?

I’m not sure why the need to go past safe limits with a target load but 3.6gr is definitely well into the danger zone.

Hodgdon's data is for a different bullet, a Hornady lead HBWC. Let's say the lead and plated bullets produce the same pressure. Hodgdon's max of 3.3 gr. Titegroup shows a pressure of 11,800 CUP. SAAMI max pressure for the 38 Special is 17,000 CUP (and psi) and for +P it's 20,000 CUP (and psi). Based on that data, I don't see that going to 3.5 gr. will exceed safe pressure limits. Also, they will be shot in a 357 Magnum chambered gun, according to DF. I don't see how that pressure will be dangerous in a .357 Magnum rated gun.

 
You can push those a little harder, I would just use a little bit slower powder.
The DEWC, yes, probably. I don’t think Dan is using “Thick Plate” Berry’s.
Keep in mind he’s talking about two different bullets.
The HBWC I’m not sure about. I’m not a fan of the Berry’s so maybe I’m over cautious but even a slow powder in an 11” SBR .. anything past 1100fps seems counter productive.
 
Hodgdon's data is for a different bullet, a Hornady lead HBWC. Let's say the lead and plated bullets produce the same pressure. Hodgdon's max of 3.3 gr. Titegroup shows a pressure of 11,800 CUP. SAAMI max pressure for the 38 Special is 17,000 CUP (and psi) and for +P it's 20,000 CUP (and psi). Based on that data, I don't see that going to 3.5 gr. will exceed safe pressure limits. Also, they will be shot in a 357 Magnum chambered gun, according to DF. I don't see how that pressure will be dangerous in a .357 Magnum rated gun.
My recommendation to stay within the lines using Titegroup is safety related based on my own personal experiences and testing, primarily in 9mm. I only have a chrono in my testing, I don’t have access to any pressure testing setup. I would not make an assumption with Titegroup that it’s “ok” to exceed published data without some facts backing it up. If the OP was using N320, in my testing that’s a very well behaved powder, I personally would venture outside the lines a bit, but that’s just me. I also didn’t see Hodgdon data for .38 special +P 148 gr load data include Titegroup. They may not have added it to their testing or decided it’s not suited for that application.
I shoot my .38’s in a .357 gun as well, but if I want .357 power, I’ll use .357 data and cartridges.
Unless you want to. That's reason enough.
Absolutely!
 
Unless you want to. That's reason enough.
Of course, but I would choose a different bullet for that speed. If one does try to push plated fast, keep an eye out for accuracy going south etc. maybe some plating
flaking off. If it does, you have found the limit for it in your gun. I used to push lubed lead DEWCs plenty fast. If I want speed in .38 Spl or .357 <ag, I don't choose
plated any more. YMMV
 
I found a pretty good load for the Berrys plates in 357 Magnum using HS6, but I’ll only keep a couple cylinders if it at any one time. I have better uses for my HS6 and 357 cases. It does work but I can’t imagine an 1100 fps DEWC does anything a 1200 fps LSWC won’t do.
 
I found a pretty good load for the Berrys plates in 357 Magnum using HS6, but I’ll only keep a couple cylinders if it at any one time. I have better uses for my HS6 and 357 cases. It does work but I can’t imagine an 1100 fps DEWC does anything a 1200 fps LSWC won’t do.
How about instead of posing an unbalanced comparison that biases the answer, state a balanced comparison, like how does a 1100 fps DEWC (or just WC) compare to a 1100 fps LSWC (or just SWC)?
 
but I can’t imagine an 1100 fps DEWC does anything a 1200 fps LSWC won’t do.
It might penetrate better, if that is important.

I use plated bullets for play ammo, all it needs to do is be more accurate than I am and hit where I want it to with a recoil/blast level I like. Heck, I can say the same for
some jacketed loads as well. Serious ammo is a whole nother subject.
 
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