.38 Special or .357 Magnum for self defense?

[riverdog]

.357 in the L/N-Frames, Ruger GP-100.
.38 +P in the J/K-Frames.

That said, my primary PD/CCW piece is 9mm.

 

[gglass]

I believe it was Will Rogers who said: " There are lies, damn lies and statistics".
Because more people are killed by .38 does not mean it is the best cartridge,
maybe just the most used.

gglass,
I am sure you realize my log reference was just an example of relative power of the
to guns, but you chose to try to belittle with it.
that speaks for itself.
A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with merely and argument.

RBezona,

If it seems that I was overly harsh, you were not mistaken. I chose to bring both experience and facts to bear, after reading your opening sentence.

I am not sure why people like the .38 special and think a low power cartridge is good.

I took this to mean that you were impugning (or belittling) the the better judgement of more than half of those who have responded to the OP's question. That question being, ".38 Special or .357 Magnum for self defense?". I suppose that I could just respond by saying, "Why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?". I would have to say that my response to the OP's question was much closer to the proverbial target than your own.

I never once referred to the .38 Special as the "best cartridge", and merely offered a statistical frame of reference to show that it is indeed a real man stopper. I also admitted, in my initial response, that the numbers were skewed to the popularity of given calibers. The point, even skewed by the .38 Special's ubiquity, remains unchanged... The .38 Special is a real man stopper!

I did take exception to your log reference, as the log is in no way analogous to human flesh. It is also my "real-world" experience that even skilled shooters have a hard time with follow-up shots with a powerful cartridge like the .44 Magnum. Yet, even a modestly practiced shooter can quickly and easily reacquire a target with the more tame .38 Special.



Have a great day!

 

[Mossberg535]

.38 Special or .357 Magnum for self defense?

357 Ruger sp101 with my reloads of 7 gr of Unique in 38 sp casing using a 125gr Hornady FP/XTP bullet.
Enough power to be effective, but still controllable enough for my wife to shoot the gun without jamming her wrist up like the 357 magnums do. Probably somewhere int the 38+p or +p+ range, Id think. Well, given that the 38sp recipes Ive seen were for about 5-5.5grains of Unique for the 125 JHP with the 357 being about 9.5gr of the same.

 

[Avenger29]

I am not sure why people like the .38 special and think a low power cartridge is good.

My first experience with a .38 many years ago was: I was shooting at a Tamarack log
24 inches long and 6 inch diameter that was sitting on a ditch bank about shoulder high.
The .38 hit the log and bounced back landing at my feet. I took a half step and
picked the flattened slug from the dirt. Since then I have had no use for .38s. I do
not want to be killed by my own fire.

By the way, next I fired at it with my .44 magnum and the log was sent flying 8 feet
across the ditch.

The .38spcl of years ago does NOT equal the modern .38spcl of today, particularly with the advanced loads that we see (like the Gold Dot short barrel loads, +P and +P+ loads, etc). There's a lot of difference between a low pressure .38spcl target load and a higher performance .38spcl defensive load.

And why, do you ask, that I carry .38spcl in my Security Six that's chambered for .357? It's because I can get hits on target faster and easier with the .38spcl than the .357 Magnum's recoil, plus anybody in the family can handle it.

No handgun is a "one shot manstopper!!", so I consider getting multiple hits far more important than trying to cram the mostest power into the smallest package. With .38spcl +P, I can get two hits in the time I could get one hit with the .357 Magnum and be back on target faster.

 

[Mossberg535]

No handgun is a "one shot manstopper!!", so I consider getting multiple hits far more important than trying to cram the mostest power into the smallest package. With .38spcl +P, I can get two hits in the time I could get one hit with the .357 Magnum and be back on target faster.

definitely agree as far as a smaller gun.
My old Smith could handle magnums and was very easy to handle and stay on target, but it was a large frame with a 6" barrel with enough weight that the recoil didnt cause it to jump up out of your hand. It was way too big a gun for me to try to conceal, however, so with a gun small enough for me to conceal also comes reducing the load enough to keep it manageable.
Ive been teaching the wife to shoot two rounds center mass very quickly. If the person keeps coming after her to then empty the gun center mass and then run if possible.

I read a story many years ago about a large attacker who was shot point blank with a 12 ga with buck shot who was actually able to kill his victim before the man collapsed and died from his wounds. Better to shoot and keep in a position away from an attacker if possible or even run if they are wounded and we can escape without having to fire again.

 

[wilkersk]

from a recent hunt I discovered that a .357 158 SJsP at point blank (using a bangstick) didn't penetrate a gator skull. So I thought that my angle was off , reloaded and tried again. Still went boing. The third was further back in the neck and that worked.

Now on the second gator (my wifes 7' 7") I remember the 357 problem and used 38 special FMJ first to see if it was better. The stick went bang and the gator is in the freezer.

I now have a lot more respect for that old useless caliber. Your results may be different than mine, and all shooting is different too.

I've heard that some .357 magnum loads have been known to fail to penetrate a car windshield. I read about this some years ago (When Magnum Force was still in the theatres).

Nowdays, there's a similiar argument against the 147gr 9X19 "defensive" loads.

 

[riverdog]

I've heard that some .357 magnum loads have been known to fail to penetrate a car windshield. I read about this some years ago (When Magnum Force was still in the theatres).

Nowdays, there's a similiar argument against the 147gr 9X19 "defensive" loads.

Are any 9x19 defensive loads able to reliably penetrate a car windshield? As I recall that's one of the reasons .40 S&W was adopted.

 

[Ghost Walker]

I don't think anybody really knows exactly, 'Why' the 40 was developed? Jeff Cooper used to always refer to the 40 as, 'A solution looking for a problem to solve'.

I doubt, very much, that 40 caliber will do any better on windshields than 9mm. About the best penetrator you can get in pistol ammunition is the 357 SIG; and, that's probably because of a unique combination of, both, velocity and point configuration.

 

[Deanimator]

I don't think anybody really knows exactly, 'Why' the 40 was developed?

It was created because there are those of us who can't palm a regulation basketball, but who would still like a semi-auto pistol with a double column magazine with more power than a 9x19mm.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I don't think anybody really knows exactly, 'Why' the 40 was developed?

The story of the .40's development is simple. After the infamous Miami Shootout, the FBI decided they needed a new pistol. They chose the 10mm -- which was the latest, hotest thing. They soon found agents complained about the recoil (remember, the original hot 10mm loads were, as Jeff Cooper said, "Wrist-spraining, slide-cracking" wonders.)

So they had the cartridge downloaded. Smith and Wesson, which was working on pistols with the FBI, simply brought out a shorter case for commercial sales at the same power level the FBI was using and called it the .40 Smith and Wesson.

 

[Mossberg535]

I've heard that some .357 magnum loads have been known to fail to penetrate a car windshield. I read about this some years ago (When Magnum Force was still in the theatres).

Must be some really crappy loads. Ive used a freaking pellet gun and shot thru a car windshield a number of times.

 

[Mossberg535]

The story of the .40's development is simple. After the infamous Miami Shootout, the FBI decided they needed a new pistol. They chose the 10mm -- which was the latest, hotest thing. They soon found agents complained about the recoil (remember, the original hot 10mm loads were, as Jeff Cooper said, "Wrist-spraining, slide-cracking" wonders.)

So they had the cartridge downloaded. Smith and Wesson, which was working on pistols with the FBI, simply brought out a shorter case for commercial sales at the same power level the FBI was using and called it the .40 Smith and Wesson.

I read the 40 was created because the 10mm was a bit too big for to hold onto well for female FBI agents so they needed a smaller casing/round to make the clip smaller so the grip would be a more manageable size. Course, thats just what I read on the web somewhere. Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[madmarty]

.357 is great, but I love my 20 yr old rossi 5 shot .38 2" small but mighty

 

[NMGonzo]

If they are in the car ... they would probably get away after shooting the freaking windshield!

 

[frankiestoys]

38 or 357

I love to shoot 357's
but i carry 38 spl+p gold dot hp

 

[Ben86]

It is my personal feeling that using .357 in a snuby is just not worth the extra recoil. It'll be .38+P for me and my sensitive hands. If it's a large frame revolver the requirement starts at .357.

 

[destroyerbear]

im pretty sure .357 has a greater force to it, but either one would work. S&W makes revolvers that use both rounds that would be great for defense.

 

[The_Pretender]

Honestly, the most frequent answer you find is that a 12 gauge loaded with 00 buckshot is the best home defense. No worries about bullets flying through walls and windows hurting innocent people.

As a note: I would never *ever* leave my wife with something I thought would not be enough to take a man down.

The truth is, use whatever you feel the most comfortable with. Dead is dead. I don't think a .357 would make a man any more deader than a .38. Can you hit your target every time with a .357? That's all that matters. Bullets whizzing by really fast don't seem to have the same effect as one to the chest.

Personally, I use Remington .357 golden sabers. I have fairly large hands, so recoil isn't much issue for me.

Practice. Have faith. Be safe.

 

[Prosser]

It seems to me that many people use .38 Special in revolvers that were designed for .357 Magnum for self defense because of the greater controllability of the former. Given the choice which do you use or would you use for self defense?

If the revolver is so light that you can't control .357, then yes, I understand why people use .38 for defense.

I have a .357 I can't hit headshots with at 7 yards, due to the heavy trigger pull, the small CCW grips, and the weight of the revolver. I still use .357, hoping COM will do the job. Also, I'm hoping the huge flash will light the guy on fire, blind him, and deafen him at the same time. Getting a flash bang in the face can be as effective as the bullet, or more so.

It is my favorite pants pocket carry gun, but, ranks third overall, to 45 ACP, and a 9mm Kahr PM 9.

 

[Photoman]

"Given the choice which do you use or would you use for self defense?"

S&W 642, CorBon DPX, Mika pocket holster.

 

[megatronrules]

I'm very fond of the 135gr .357 Gold Dot short barrel load from speer,this is a very accurate round in my 340 M&P. I know some consider it to be just a very hot .38 special +p+ load but I have to say in my opinion its a really lightly loaded .357 magnum. In either case the god dot JHP in any caliber has proven to be a solid performer,I believe the .38+P 135gr load was created at the behest of the NYPD and all reports seem to point to this round being and excellent performer in real street shootings.

I also favor the Remington gold saber 125gr .357 magnum and the corbon DPX load in .357 looks very promising as well,although I haven't tried the corbon yet I intend to look for some at this week ends gun show. Overall I really like these "downloaded" magnums for the short barrel revolvers especially for really light snubs like my 340 M&P. They still offer more punch than a .38+P but also offer more control to the shooter. I also like Federal's 13gr hydrashocks in .357 magnum as well. but these are NOT light loads they are full power it would appear.

 

[Old John]

.357 magnum for me........

I have a Ruger SP101 for CCW. i usually carry Winchester 110gr. half-jacket lead hollow points. A light .357 load but half again as much FP's as a .38+p.
I have a Ruger GP100 3" for a bedside gun and occasional CCW. I carry Winchester Silvertips in it.
I practice with each of my weapons with .38's and .357's
I'm happy with my choices.

I would never try to tell anyone else they are wrong.
Shoot what you like.

 

[gearchecker]

To RBezona,
Sounds like the bounce back round was a squib.
Enough powder to get the bullet down the tube, but not enough to penetrate.
My wife will testify I had a squib load do exactly the same thing this past summer.
We both watched it bounce off the stump and drop right back in front of my feet.

Gglass is exactly right here. Excellent link, thanks!

 

[357mag.]

Nothing wrong with the 38,but i'll stick to my 357 loads for C/C.I carry a sp101 and the weight really tames the mag. recoil.As far as the mag. not offering much over the 38 in snub-guns,I do not agree.A good mag. load will out-do the 38 by 100-200fps with the same weight bullet.At hand-gun velocitys, 100-200fps is a big differnce imo.

 

[PhrankKastle]

When I had my SP101 I carried the Gold Dot short barrel .357 and found it to be very controllable. In my friends S&W 340 or 342 don't remember the exact model but was a lightweight and .357 was too snappy and after about 40 rounds downright painful for me to shoot accurately, I shudder to think what a 125 grainer would have felt like in that S&W.
So in a SP101 I'd highly recommend the GD short barrel and in my experience with an airweight I'd go with 38+P.