.38 special

Csinn

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I’m late to the party but I’ve never had a .38 special so gave t looked at it much but I’m thinking about getting one. I just noticed that underwood makes a round that generates 548 ft lbs energy in .38 plus p but then I notice another one listed as plus p but only 278 ft lbs of energy. I assume the underwood you would only want to use in a gun chambered in .357? That just seemed like a big difference. Most plus p looked like 300+ ft lbs.
 
welcome to the 38sp world. my suggestion is to find a revolver platform that fits your budget & needs, i.e. 2” snubbie or 4” service, airweight or steel, suburban civilian ccw or security guard or outdoorsman or target shooter, new or used, then worry about specific ammo choices. you will get lots of useful suggestions here, but why not first share your intended use, etc.

be warned: once you have fondled a classic, humble, used but not abused, s&w m10 there is no going back to a flashy 9mm polymer blaster.


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Agreed that those Underwood numbers sound pretty "good 'n spicy"...

I wouldn't subject any of my .38 Special guns to that. I like and respect them too much. Even my model 10-5, which could probably stand it for a little while at least.


I wouldn't dream of shooting it through a 1950's-era M&P.
Or a mid-90's era Taurus model 85.
Or even a current-day Smith Airweight snub! (Even though technically rated to handle it)
 
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I recommend you take a look at this link and scroll down to “.38 Special Ballistic Test Results”

I have an S&W 442 .38 Special. Very nice light, but not too light, carry revolver. It weighs 14.6 ounces unloaded. When I bought it in ‘97 I tried all the available .38 Spl +P ammo.
I learned 2 things real quick:
1. +P ammo sux in a light revolver for snappy recoil.
2. Accurate quick double taps were very hard to accomplish.

Perhaps my early +P testing also contributed to my right wrist’s demise. That and a bunch of other dumb moves have essentially destroyed the cartilage in my right wrist where the thumb meets the wrist.
Sure, shooting a hard hitting round in a light handgun is fun…until it’s not.

There are quite a few standard velocity .38 Special rounds that have some great penetration and expansion numbers in 4 and 2 inch revolvers and they will allow for quick recovering shots and will be less punishing to your joints.

My 2¢
 
Years ago I bought the S&W 340 PD, big mistake. It carries like a breeze at 12 ounces, but hurts to shoot #P and Really hurts shooting .357 mag. I carry 148gr wadcutters in it. I should have bought something around 19 ounces or so.
I made the same mistake with the S&W Bodyguard 38. I have rectified the situation, with the purchase of this:
IMG_20241225_152657.jpg
A Colt Official Police, c. 1940 or so.
 
If Underwood is correct that they are within SAAMI +P pressure limits, then they can be fired in any gun chambered in .38 Special that is rated for +P. I have fired their item # 734 and recoil is very heavy, and they ran 1,000 fps from a 2" barrel.
 
I’m late to the party but I’ve never had a .38 special so gave t looked at it much but I’m thinking about getting one. I just noticed that underwood makes a round that generates 548 ft lbs energy in .38 plus p but then I notice another one listed as plus p but only 278 ft lbs of energy. I assume the underwood you would only want to use in a gun chambered in .357? That just seemed like a big difference. Most plus p looked like 300+ ft lbs.

That is running into lower end 357 mag levels. If it is this one I suspect it is a lot like similar buffalo bore offerings and will be unpleasant to shoot in anything weighing less than 26 ounces: https://underwoodammo.com/38-special-p-158-grain-hard-cast-keith/

I would not make that my introduction to 38 special. First I would get an idea of what I might want to do with 38 special, if it is for general fun, carry, home defense, woods, hunting sidearm, etc.

I would recommend an all-steel 38 special +P rated or 357 model from S&W, Ruger, or Colt, and start with target loads like wadcutters which will be low recoil, accurate, easy to shoot and help with familiarizing. After that I'd go for more mid range loads and maybe venture toward the hot stuff once I was comfortably controlling the lighter loads.

An airweight is probably not what you want to start with, but with wadcutters you could. But those near-magnum underwood loads will drive you away (even if your tendons survive it).
 
I’m late to the party but I’ve never had a .38 special so gave t looked at it much but I’m thinking about getting one. I just noticed that underwood makes a round that generates 548 ft lbs energy in .38 plus p but then I notice another one listed as plus p but only 278 ft lbs of energy. I assume the underwood you would only want to use in a gun chambered in .357? That just seemed like a big difference. Most plus p looked like 300+ ft lbs.
This Heavy Duty is why that first load was made.

IMG_1140.jpeg
IMG_1141.jpeg

Back in the 30s LE asked for more power than the 38 S&W Special cartridge. Colt responded with the the 38 Super. S&W responded with an N frame chambered for the 38/44.

Phillip Sharpe used the Outdoorsman (Heavy Duty with adjustable sights) in his work that culminated in the 357 S&W Magnum cartridge.

Kevin
 
Since the OP is mentioning energy figures, I assume the intended use is CCW or defensive use? Fair enough, but the .38 Special can also shine for target and plinking purposes. Ammo has become more expensive (about 2x vs. 9x19), but it is a very easy cartridge to handload for whatever purpose strikes your fancy.

Target wadcutters are particularly fun to shoot from a .38 Special revolver, and depending of variables the same load in a carbine length barrel can sound almost like a .22 CB cap. The old H&R Topper in .357 Magnum made a pretty fair small game "rook rifle" for me with Federal target wadcutter ammo, back when I was just out of college.
 
Buy a model 10. That is absolutely the best place to start.

shoot practice ammo for cheap but if you keep it loaded use FBI loads. Remington makes a good one in their HTP line right now.

A model 10 with FBI loads and a competent shooter is, in baseball terms, a tough out.
 
I’m late to the party but I’ve never had a .38 special so gave t looked at it much but I’m thinking about getting one. I just noticed that underwood makes a round that generates 548 ft lbs energy in .38 plus p but then I notice another one listed as plus p but only 278 ft lbs of energy. I assume the underwood you would only want to use in a gun chambered in .357? That just seemed like a big difference. Most plus p looked like 300+ ft lbs.

I would try Atlanta Arms 125gr HPs. Natchez sells those at $8.99 per box of 20.
 
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This Heavy Duty is why that first load was made.

View attachment 1243386
View attachment 1243387

Back in the 30s LE asked for more power than the 38 S&W Special cartridge. Colt responded with the the 38 Super. S&W responded with an N frame chambered for the 38/44.

Phillip Sharpe used the Outdoorsman (Heavy Duty with adjustable sights) in his work that culminated in the 357 S&W Magnum cartridge.

Kevin
That gun in high condition is good collectors piece. From usefulness perspective is about as good as buying 38 Super pistol instead of 10mm auto.
 
Underwood's .38 loads are safe for any .38 rated for +p usage. Such loads will accelerate wear, but that is true of any +p load.

In my opinion, such loads are not enjoyable out of any revolver. They are working loads with a purpose, but recoil excessively out of anything short of an X frame or a rifle.

For a "fun" gun, a .38 loaded with hollow base wadcutters at 700 fps is perhaps the most perfect thing in existence. Every increase from there moves you further from "fun" and into "business", and I personally would not buy a .38 unless I meant to have a revolver for purely recreational purposes.

Or, put another way, if I was concerned about energy figures, I'd buy a .357 Magnum.
 
I bought couple boxes of Buffalo Bore +p in another caliber to try, because it was at closeout at lgs. It's the last two boxes I will ever buy. From specs the Underwood offerings appear just as enticing.
 
I’m late to the party but I’ve never had a .38 special so gave t looked at it much but I’m thinking about getting one. I just noticed that underwood makes a round that generates 548 ft lbs energy in .38 plus p but then I notice another one listed as plus p but only 278 ft lbs of energy. I assume the underwood you would only want to use in a gun chambered in .357? That just seemed like a big difference. Most plus p looked like 300+ ft lbs.
You want to buy a gun specifically because Underwood makes a load for it that is close to .357 in power? First, I think that's a typo, it probably meant to say 248 ft lbs, second even if it was accurate, why would you not just buy a .357? The only benefit the .38's have over the .357's is they can be made on ultralight alloy frames and that's only a thing for J frames or the LCR and you won't be getting 548 ft.lbs from a sub 2 inch barrel.

The question is what do you want in a .38 revolver?
 
I recommend you take a look at this link and scroll down to “.38 Special Ballistic Test Results”

I have an S&W 442 .38 Special. Very nice light, but not too light, carry revolver. It weighs 14.6 ounces unloaded. When I bought it in ‘97 I tried all the available .38 Spl +P ammo.
I learned 2 things real quick:
1. +P ammo sux in a light revolver for snappy recoil.
2. Accurate quick double taps were very hard to accomplish.

Perhaps my early +P testing also contributed to my right wrist’s demise. That and a bunch of other dumb moves have essentially destroyed the cartilage in my right wrist where the thumb meets the wrist.
Sure, shooting a hard hitting round in a light handgun is fun…until it’s not.

There are quite a few standard velocity .38 Special rounds that have some great penetration and expansion numbers in 4 and 2 inch revolvers and they will allow for quick recovering shots and will be less punishing to your joints.

My 2¢
Please list some standard .38 special loads that give both good penetration and expansion out of 2" barrel, I would like to know.
 
Echoing everyone suggesting an M10 is a great choice.
A few years ago, one of the bullet maker loading manuals suggested a 140 gr bullet offered the best balance of velocity and performance in 38 Spl [sorry I cannot put my hand on the exact reference]. Have to agree, that weight seems to work very well. For my M10, I load the Missouri bullet 140 gr so called Zinger with some Longshot powder to yield approx 1060 fps - giving about 350 fp of KE. This load is very accurate for me, easy to shoot, penetrates well and subsonic to about 10 F. Interesting aside, last weekend my younger son was visiting - we did shoot some targets with this load - my son says "cannot recall these being so loud". Yep, temp was just hovering just above zero, we got a supersonic crack. Get an M10, try a bunch of different loads. If you don't handload, save the cases and get a simple basic loading kit - it adds to the enjoyment of shooting.
 
Please list some standard .38 special loads that give both good penetration and expansion out of 2" barrel, I would like to know.
2 Inch can make it tricky, but critical defense, federal punch both usually test decently meeting min fbi specs. Also federal deep, but that may be d/c'd.

A sufficiently soft 158 gr lswchp will expand /deform and get like 18ish inches, but that can vary even in the same manufacturer lot so many folks load their own.

Not fun on the wrist...but standard and plus p versions from buffalo bore of the fbi load will meet penetration and expansion requirements. Not fun from an airweight, manageable from a steel j frame or it's like. No free lunch, but an 18-20 ounce revolver is controllable with those loads and I keep my 2 inch model 60 stoked with them. The 642 gets critical defense standard pressure.

These loads change to hardcast wadcutter or semi wadcutters in the woods.
 
Please list some standard .38 special loads that give both good penetration and expansion out of 2" barrel, I would like to know.
Did you try the link? The .38 Special table in there is somewhat controllable, like an Excell spreadsheet. You can select the barrel length of 2” by clicking on the header of the “Barrel Length” column.

Here is a screenshot of that table with only 2” barrels shown: (the bottom 3 rows are 4” to show that the 2” data is complete)
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From: https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/

Does this help or are you referring to hand-loads?

Also, check this out: (I put this together on Mematic from screenshots of the table on the above link.)
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I hope this helps.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the Federal HST Micro loading I highlighted is very soft shooting in an S&W model 442.
 
My only handgun at present is the same S&W, model 10, heavy barrel - that I was issued the last week of 1973 as a candidate ready to attend the Academy in my area, south Florida. When I retired out in 1995 I was allowed to purchase it for $1.00... In the years I carried it - it never let me down although I never fired a single shot on the street - only at one range or another for training and qualification purposes... That model, with only fixed sights was every young (and not so young...) officer's best piece of equipment, in my opinion - although, over time, many semi-auto pistols were more capable. I do note that today, used ones in good condition fetch a lot more than my department paid for the ones they issued back then... and so it goes
 
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