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.380 P+ ?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Woody_in_MN, Sep 24, 2005.

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  1. Woody_in_MN

    Woody_in_MN Member

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    Does anyone make a P+ load for .380 ?

    - w
     
  2. dolanp

    dolanp Member

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    CorBon sells one but IIRC there really is no such thing as a standard +P in .380 it's just a marketing thing.
     
  3. Bopleo

    Bopleo Member

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    First off its +P, and second No there is no +P .380, if there was it would be called 9mm.

    I think the hirt, and santa barbara .380 is supposed to be some hot 380.

    try Southern Ohio guns in your search engine.
     
  4. MICHAEL T

    MICHAEL T Member

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    Corbon no longer has +P on their 380 line boxs. That was a mistake and if you have any is older ammo. The Corbon today is same in performace as the old rounds marked +P They give 90gr HP at 1050fps and 220 ft lbs engery from a PPK/S. Their is no +P in 380. The new DPX is coming and already a short test on board by none other than S.A. Camp
     
  5. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

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    Would you mind explaining that statement?
     
  6. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    .380 is just about the hottest cartridge that will work safely in a straight blowback gun. You can get a bit more power in a small straight blowback gun, but if you go higher, you're going to run into problems.

    All that to say, if you want more power than the .380 provides, you need to step up to 9mm Luger. Trying to find significantly hotter .380ACP ammo than normal and finding it from a reputable source will be a fruitless task. Reloading it significantly hotter is not safe.
     
  7. Bopleo

    Bopleo Member

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    Car Knocker,
    The .380, called 9mm kurtz, which in German means short, is the same bullet as the 9mm parabellum, which in German means for war.
    The difference between these two is they both use essentially the same bullet but one (the 9mm) is a full charge load, larger case, and the other (the.380) is a shorter case, and a lesser or thereabouts powder charge.
     
  8. greg531mi

    greg531mi Member

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    The 380, a old caliber, is loaded down by Sporting Ammo Manufacturer's Association. Too many old and cheaply made guns, from the turn of the century, to the pot metal types of the 80's....At around 17,000 CUP's, it is reduced because of that, while the 9mm is around 32,000 cup's! That is the main reason why the 380 is slower than the 9mm. A well made 380 will take more pressure, but why risk it for a couple more feet per second?
     
  9. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    .38ACP (9mm Corto, 9mm Kurz, 9x17mm) is old, but it's newer than the 9mm Luger by a few years. The SAAMI pressure spec for the .380ACP is 21,500psi.

    Its lower pressure reflects the design of the firearms (straight blowback) manufactured for the cartridge, rather than their quality or age.

    The 9mm Luger and the .380 ACP do use the same diameter bullet, but the 9mm Luger most commonly uses 115-147gr bullets while the .380ACP is usually loaded with 90-100 grain bullets.
     
  10. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

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    Bopleo,

    I know the history of the .380. But a .380 +P wouldn't be a 9mm any more than a .38 Special +P is a .357 Magnum or a .44 Special +P is a .44 Magnum. That there isn't a current SAAMI spec for a .380 +P doesn't alter that fact. The difference between the pressures in a "regular" loading and a +P loading are insufficient to move a load into the next higher class of cartridge. A +P+ load may well be skirting that move up.
     
  11. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    The point is that there is no such thing as .380ACP +P because it's not feasible. If you want more performance you're going to have to move up in caliber. The next significant step up is 9mm Luger.

    And, if you want to split hairs, the FIRST .357Magnum WAS a hot-loaded .38spl just as the first.44Magnum was a hot-loaded .44 Special. The cartridge cases were lengthened not to provide extra performance, but in order to prevent them from being chambered in older, weaker guns.
     
  12. Borachon

    Borachon Member

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    Yes they do make a .380 +P.


    It's called a Makarov 9x18 cartridge. ;)


    The Makarov cartridge is actually about highest type cartridge that can still be fired in a straight blowback gun.
     
  13. Bopleo

    Bopleo Member

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    JohnKSa understood carknocker.

    My comment was never meant to be a technical evaluation of the .380.

    You asked, i answered. I guess you had to look it up to be 100% right, who cares anyway.
     
  14. MICHAEL T

    MICHAEL T Member

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    Their have been 9mm blow backs made. But not to many. They seem to kick a little
     
  15. gunfan

    gunfan Member

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    In early 2006...

    Mike McNett of Double Tap Ammunition will be introducing a high-performance version of the .380 ACP cartridge that will eclipse the 9 X 18 Makarov in performance and cost about the same as other premium ammunition.

    Call mike @ 1-866-357-1066 tomorrow during business hours (Mountain Time) for more information.

    Scott
     
  16. Dr.Rob

    Dr.Rob Moderator Staff Member

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    Astra's 400 is a blow-back in 9mm Bergman/Bayard (hotter than a 9mm) and it's a blowback.

    I want one.

    As for 380 +p... don't believe the hype. It's hard enough to get a .380 near 1000 fps with a 90 gr bullet. Federal Hydrashocks are one of the best hollowpoints in .380 available, but many beleive an FMJ is a better bullet.
     
  17. Borachon

    Borachon Member

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    How much of an eclipse? A total eclipse where it goes twice as fast as a 9x18...or a partial eclipse where it only goes 200fps faster than the fastest current .380?

    Also....strictly speaking....a 9x18 Mak isn't really a 9mm. It's a 9.2mm. The .380 is actually closer to the standard concept of a 9mm. So the Mak is going to have a wider hole before the bullet is even fired compared to the .380.

    If the new .380 bullet isn't moving 1200fps then there are already some Mak rounds that have achieved 1150 or so. And the Mak rounds frequently will have 115 grain bullets traveling at 1050fps. So I'm wondering just how much more effective a .380 can be than a 9x18 Makarov.

    And finally, defensive ammo for Makarovs is hideously cheap. 115gr ammo can cost as low as 5 or 6 dollars a box. You can practice with the same ammo you use for carry purposes.
     
  18. greg531mi

    greg531mi Member

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    Not all 380's are blowback. Colt 380's are a locking action. A steel Mustang could handle a lot more pressure than the old blowback and potmetal versions of the 80's..... Blowback firearms, in itself, have a narrow pressure band for the action to work right. Not that they are weak. Some are very strong, and can take a lot more pressure, but will not cycle right.
    Sammi was created by the ammo companies because of lawsuits, and they are conservative because of it......
     
  19. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    Yup, I've got two of them!

    However, they are the exception--and by a long shot. The typical .380 is a straight blowback, and that's where the design limits come into play.
    Yeah, I guess you can say it that way--as long as you make it clear that "not cycling right" includes early opening which can cause case ruptures.
     
  20. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Since the English version of parabellum is parable, which is a story, event, etc. from which a moral lesson is learned it would stand to reason that the parabellum moniker was derived to describe the 9x19 as a "lesson teacher", more or less. This word is very similar in any Latin-based/Germanic language.

    The German word for war is Krieg.

    As to the original question, it has been pretty well answered. There are a few .380 pistols that can take higher pressures (Beretta 84/85, Walther, etc.) But SAAMI specs are set to avoid blowing up Jennings and other junk guns. I have acheived 1128 FPS average from my 84 FS with 90 gr. Gold dots, mind you it has a 4" tube. I haven't chrono'ed these loads out of my P3AT.
     
  21. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    Not much latin education here, but I thought the normal translation of "parabellum" was more along the lines of "for war" or "prepared for war" :confused:
     
  22. faustulus

    faustulus Member

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    uh no.
    Latin 101
    para = for
    bellum = war
    parable is from the greek parabol meaning to compare
    and while both Latin and German are indo-european languages, they are about as far from one another has you can get.
    (English is a germanic language, Spanish is a romance -- latin-base -- language.)
     
  23. Borachon

    Borachon Member

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    Parabellum does mean "for war". But I think it's Latin...perhaps Spanish or French...not really sure.

    I suppose the German who designed the cartridge was something of a educated man. Rolls off the tongue better than ParaKrieg anyway.
     
  24. Wilson 17&26

    Wilson 17&26 Member

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    MachIVshooter, I’ve put over 700 rounds of 87gr Semi-jacketed flat tip Santa Barbara through my Kel-Tec P-3ATs. Should you ever chrono that ammo from your P-3AT, I would sure appreciate a post. It’s the cheapest .380 ammo I have found at less than ten cents a round delivered to my door. I do confess to using only magazines with a finger extension when I shoot it.
    Thanks,
    Wilson
     
  25. Bobo

    Bobo Member

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    Wilson 17&26,
    How do the recoil springs hold up? Have you had to replace them?
     
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