.380: Which would be a nice carry gun?

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If you want a true POCKET gun, there is none finer than the Seecamp LWS380. If you want an IWB gun with little recoil in 380 my recommendations are the Beretta Cheetah 85FS, the CZ 83, or the new Sig P380.

As a side note, my Walther PPK was one of the most uncomfortable guns I've ever shot, with the most felt recoil. The web of my hand is still scarred 3 years now after I sold the thing. Gorgeous gun, though.
 
Another alternative. The Sphinx AT380 is a easy recoiling pistol with a very smooth trigger and it's 100% ambidexterous. Can hold 11+1 in a very compact pistol.

SphinxAT380m.gif
HoguehandallonSphinx.gif

Here's one for sale...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=152889536

The many guns made in this calber make the choice hard, as there are many outstanding pistols available. Personally I rank the Beretta at the top, the Sig P232 just under and most every other below them in way or another. The good news is that it's hard to make a bad choice.

Good luck.
 
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+1 for the CZ83 in 380 for quality and weight that makes recoil light. Of course if you make that decision, then you might as well go with the CZ82 in 9mm Makarov. The CZ82 is the identical size/weight, 1/2 the price ($159 at CDNN) and more powerful. The biggest advantage for the 9x18Mak round is that it is readily available and inexpensive compared to 380 ammo. Yes, any dealer will know how and where to get one if they don't already have one.
 
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what's with this nonsense recommendation of a cz-83? why wouldn't you buy a cz-82, which fires a more powerful round (that you can actually find ammo for), is the same pistol otherwise, and is cheaper?
 
benderx4 said:
If you want a true POCKET gun, there is none finer than the Seecamp LWS380. If you want an IWB gun with little recoil in 380 my recommendations are the Beretta Cheetah 85FS, the CZ 83, or the new Sig P380.

As a side note, my Walther PPK was one of the most uncomfortable guns I've ever shot, with the most felt recoil. The web of my hand is still scarred 3 years now after I sold the thing. Gorgeous gun, though.
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This is true, the seacamp is the king, but if there are any budget constraints its probably out. The new Sig is the P238, not P380.
 
I'm not crazy about .380 only because there are so many choices in 9mm in comparable sized guns.

For carry, it's hard to beat the size/weight of the Ruger LCP or Kel-Tec P3AT.

For a gun that's "carryable" but a little larger and heavier to make it a better shooter, I like the PPK, the Bersa or probably my #1 choice would be a Sig P232
 
The CZ-82 is a great little gun, was my first C&R purchase in fact. Accurate and fun too shoot, but too big for pocket carry, weighs as much as my G29 in fact.

I just bought a Taurus 738 TCP and absolutely love it. Same weight as the Ruger or KT, with the addition of a slide lock. I've put a box of WWB ball through it so far, had 2 FTF on the 2nd mag and none since. It will need several hundred more through it before I'm ready to carry it though. It is made in the USA in a new Taurus factory in (I believe) Miami. Though the .380 is not an ideal caliber, the size and weight are ideal for the hot weather here when the outfit of the day is shorts and a t-shirt. The trigger is long like the LCP, but smooth and about 4 lbs all the way back. I actually did not think recoil was an issue at all, I have read that some people find the recoil on the LCP to be too much, I barely noticed it. We'll see how that opinion holds once I get the Buffalo Bore ammo I ordered the other day.
 
I love my Beretta 84, but would never carry it, it's too purdy. I've had it since 1982 and it looks NIB. Instead, I carry a Bersa 380CC. It shoots anything I feed it and if it gets nicked up, it won't matter. I payed $220 plus tax for it, used. Recoil is on par with my 9mm BHP.
3308i3d.jpg
 
To continue with others here, there are (IMHO) two separate tiers of .380: what I call "full size" (which are still pretty small) and "micro" (as small as can be reasonably expected).

The obvious arguments against the first tier (also as above) are twofold: #1) there are now 9mms and 40s that are in the same size range and #2) a lot of them are straight blowback–which means that felt recoil can be stiffer than one would think. For example, the PPK in .380, to me, feels snappier than my alloy frame compact 9mms, as does my all-steel bersa 383.

Still, the guns can be pretty great, as mentioned above: Beretta 84/85/86, Browning's BDA version, Cz-83, Sig 232 (in both steel and alloy), PP/PPk and even the Bersa (I have two bersas, an old Beretta '34 and a PPK).

The second tier is hard to argue with, unless one just refuses to abide with the .380. These strike me as pretty usefull and this opinion is backed up by a lot here, to say nothing of sales figures. Exemplars include the above kel-tecs, the LCP, the sig P238, the Kahr P380, the micro eagle, the NAA guardian, the seecamp and a few that I'm forgetting.

I've been on a research tear of late, and based on owning a couple of, ahem, "full-size" blowbacks, and having shot the LCP and Kahr, I've boiled it down to either the Kahr or the Sig 238 for me; just about neck-and-neck. I'm told by folks that have shot both that the sig is the better handler. My only reservation on that is the condition-1 carry for your purse; that said, I'd give one a look.

The kahr, kel-tec/LCP and sig are all smaller in terms of height/length than the PT-22 (I've got one, as does my lady), FWIW

At this point, I'm leaning towards the kahr, but only because it is absolutely the lowest-profile of them all (not by very much though) and I like the way it shoots. I feel that it is a hair less snappy than the LCP, again, FWIW. Certainly no worse than my alloy Bersa, though the Bersa has a lot more to hold onto. I'd bet the Kahr would be a pussycat with the grip extension now available (maybe someone here knows for sure; the LCP owners seem to like their pearces...).

For your pleasure:
http://www.kahr.com/PA-1B/review_ah091009.html

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/handguns/26885-four-380-s-compared-images.html

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1119974
 
I was at a local gunshop today and handled the Kahr .380 for the first time. I have to say, for a micro gun, it is very nice. Feels good in the hand in spite of the short grips. Much better to me than the P3AT that I previously owned. That being said, Kahrs tend to fit my hand better than some other pistols and I carry a PM9 regularly.
 
Colt Mustang (not Pocket Lite), loaded with 6-shot mag, in pocket holster; co-carry 10-round magazine; all loaded with hot Corbon hollow points. It's a gun for close quarters. I train with all shots sighted to the head. Standard sighting if possible, but also train one-handed for trajectory from single-hand hold (my midline at sternum to target). You can get pretty accurate from midline up, down, left, and right out to six feet.
 
A lot of great suggestions and I won't get into the manufacturer debate, but if you were my daughter/sister/wife I would suggest -

1) smooth, double action trigger - simplicity
2) physically sleek, without a bunch of knobs, safeties, levers, hammer, laser that could snag anything in your purse on the way out
3) look at 9mm, wider selection of models and ammo
 
why is the sig 238 being lumped in with the "full size .380's? i've compared my boss's 238 side by side with my LCP and it's barely larger.

the 238 is a MUCH nicer shooting pistol. no contest. too bad it's SA only, i prefer to carry with one in the tube, DA, no safeties.
 
why is the sig 238 being lumped in with the "full size .380's? i've compared my boss's 238 side by side with my LCP and it's barely larger.
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Because it weighs close to twice as much as an LCP and it's a good amount thicker too. It's just an entirely different thing in your pocket compared to the LCP/P3AT.
 
The P238 is slightly larger and thicker than the LCP but not much. The P238 does weigh quite a bit more, about 7 oz, more than the LCP and is definitely not as comfortable in the pocket as an LCP. The P238 shoots a whole lot better than the LCP as the SAO trigger is wonderful compared to the long pull of the LCP trigger. For shooting the P238 blows the LCP away but the weight and DAO trigger make the LCP a great choice for pocket carry. I love my P238 but I can't see myself carrying it cocked and locked so it really isn't as good a choice for carry for me. I may actually sell my P238 and get an LCP.
 
another vote for the Sig 238

It is just about as small as the LCP but it definitely feels like a real gun. That said, I love my two LCPs and actually enjoy shooting them very much. I have put close to 300 rounds through one of them in one outing. The trigger is long but decent. I really do get a kick out of people who call them punishing, it escapes me. As for accuracy, it is more than sufficient. I can keep all shots the vital area when shot one handed with my off hand, quickly. It is a pocket gun, not a target gun. The sights are rudimentary at best but when taking my time I have been impressed with just how accurate it is. If the Sig 238 is as good as my Mustang used to be then it too will be surprisingly accurate. I will be getting one in the near future.
 
I do not want to disparage other peoples choices but the P238 Sig is not up to par with Sigs other offerings. It troubles me to hear so many people using it as a primary defense gun.

It is a gun which was built to a price point. It was made to be a cheap relative to the Colt Mustang. It is not anywhere near the quality in construction or materials as the rest of the Sig line.

Bruce Gray of Gray guns posted this on the Sig Forum. Bruce knows his Sigs. This is what he had to say about the P238.

Beyond that, the 238 is inarguably not in the same league with the classic P-series guns that made SIG Sauer's reputation, and I would encourage everyone to have a realistic set of expectations. These pistols are sold, and purchased, on price.

I'd conceal mine in a safe and carry a pistol instead.

OK, I'm sorry. That was a cheap shot but I simply couldn't help it. It's rare that I'm that nasty and don't wish to disillusion those who know me to be a famously nice guy, but I still just cannot fathom why SIG would copy the Pony/Mustang et al. If yours works, that's great...

Beyond that, the 238 is inarguably not in the same league with the classic P-series guns that made SIG Sauer's reputation, and I would encourage everyone to have a realistic set of expectations. These pistols are sold, and purchased, on price.

Getting your gun back with significant, avoidable damage during warranty repair would be upsetting no matter what it was, of course. My point is that the 238 is an FIE Titan is a Colt Mustang is a ".380 Mosquito", and not a P-series SIG or other best-quality service pistol. Perhaps just getting your 238 to function would seem to be their main priority and a 238 owner's main concern? If it can be made to function reliably you can hopefully make some use of it.

Gray Guns will not work on a P238 because they do not believe that they can make them 100% reliable as a carry gun. It is the one and only Sig product I have ever seen Bruce Gray bash.

-Bruce Gray

YMMV
 
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You are mistaken on all accounts.
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Nope.

Now for some stats
On the weight:
From Ruger.com - LCP: 9.40 ounces (with an empty magazine)

From sigsauer.com - P238 : Weight w/out Mag 15.2 oz

Add an empty mag to the P238 and how far off am I?
weighs close to twice as much as an LCP
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You want to go and add the weight of that mag and tell me if they are closer to the same or closer to double? I'll bet on the latter.

It's pretty darn close to twice as much. Even if it were closer to 1 1/2 times the weight, that's still a LOT heavier when it comes to a mouse gun.

On the width. LCP is .82. Sig is 1.1. The Sig feels noticeably thicker in the front pocket of a pair of pants. It's a chunkier gun for sure. The edges aren't rounded off as much and it has sights that stick up more (I definitely prefer the sights on the Sig to the sights on the LCP). With guns this small and light, even a couple of ounces is a large overall % of the gun's weight. We're not comparing a 32oz gun with a 30oz gun here.

There's nothing wrong with the Sig. I actually like it as well as the Mustang...but it's not as small or light as an LCP any way you cut it. Sorry to say but you are mistaken on me being mistaken. ;)
 
Any of these three will do you just fine. But, recommend you go out and find a range that rents handguns and get the one that feels best to you. Pictures, Khar P380 (bottom) & PM9 (top) as well as the P238. Felt recoil on all three is very light.
PM9P238P380-1.jpg
 
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