.380: Which would be a nice carry gun?

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I'm a 5'2" female, and I don't think the LCP is bad to shoot, at all.
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You're lending credence to my theory that my issue with the LCP is my inability to fit enough fingers around the grip. As a 5'2" woman, your hands are no doubt a good bit smaller than mine..
 
Walther PK380 or Beretta 84FS or 85 with bit of a nod to the PK380. Both guns are easy to shoot, but the PK380 is lighter and more compact. It gives up five rounds to the Beretta but nine rounds is likely to be more than enough for SD.

My wife has a Browning BDA .380 which she loves.

Take a PK380, or a Beretta, or a Bersa .380 or a SIG P232 and an LCP to the range. Put a box (50 rounds) of identical ammunition through each. Remind yourself this is self-defense, not self-abuse and realize you're going to need to put a few hundred rounds of ammo through whichever you select so that you're comfortable with it and can shoot it accurately.

The LCP, as I have said before is too little gun for the round. Not enough bulk or weight to be a suitable primary self-defense weapon. You've got to have a gun that will get you back on target for follow-up shots which you are likely to need, no matter what caliber handgun you have.
 
On the width. LCP is .82. Sig is 1.1. The Sig feels noticeably thicker in the front pocket of a pair of pants.
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Wow! 1.1 in thick. I found that so hard to believe, I looked it up. You are correct. It sure doesn't feel that thick. I have a CZ Rami that I think is way too thick. I looked it up and it's 1.3 inches. I would have sworn on a stack of bibles that the Sig was HALF the thickness of the Rami.
I guess that shows that there's more to the feel than the cold hard numbers.
 
The Mustang/Sig 238 is a better shooter with significantly less perceived recoil than the LCP, yet it is still rather small. The Sig is much less expensive than the Colt Mustang which is no longer made so it is the more logical choice. The Sig is easier to shoot well because it is slightly heavier, easier to get a firm grip on, and has much better sights. It is more expensive than the Ruger LCP but a nicer gun in lots of ways.
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I agree with the above Shooting my Mustang with Corbon is almost like shooting a 22 compared to my PPK/S, Bersa, P3AT KelTec The SIG is a clone and should be just as nice
I go with the SIG as is small enough to carry other ways than a purse That isn't best way to carry
 
harmon rabb said:
You're lending credence to my theory that my issue with the LCP is my inability to fit enough fingers around the grip. As a 5'2" woman, your hands are no doubt a good bit smaller than mine..
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I have the hands of a 5'2" woman and have no issues with it. Your theory may be correct.
 
My wife loves our CZ-83. She shoots very well with it. (She's 5'2", and quite petite) I just bought a Beretta 84, but have not had the time to test it out yet. She likes the looks and feel of the Beretta, so as soon as we get to the range, I'll let you know her opinion of it.
 
I bet you can outrun someone that big.
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I am a trail runner, and amateur bicycle racer (yes, one of those guys in lycra shorts) so I have no doubt that I am in shape to outrun most bad guys. But that's irrelevant here. Regardless of caliber, the gun is for when you don't have that option.

shoot him in the right place with a .22 and he's dead, instantly. from all accounts i've read of police shootings, don't trust ANY handgun caliber to put a guy down instantly unless you hit something vital.
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So then why not carry a .22 for SD? You know why. It's because you want to want to have some margin of error. I'm no Rob Leatham. I'm certainly proficient, but let's face it, I want to have a tiny bit of fudge factor. .40S&W undeniably gives more fudge factor than a .380. I don't trust it to stop a bad guy 100% of the time. but I don't think anyone is going to say that it doesn't stand a better chance than a .380.

Now I'll say it again. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH USING .380 FOR SD. My problem is that the larger guns like a P232, or Bersa, or the Beretta are too big for the round these days. That's my problem. I have a hard time rationalizing carrying the larger .380 guns. On the other hand there is massive caliber/gun ratio for something like an LCP, Kahr P380, or P3AT.
 
I think perceived recoil has a LOT to do with how a pistol fits ones hands.
harmon rabb has it right, as I can get a lot of hand on that little LCP, and it doesn't bother me to shoot it at all.
Now a S&W 642, on the other hand, I hated with a vengeance, terrible recoil, I believe because it just didn't fit my hands.
 
So then why not carry a .22 for SD? You know why. It's because you want to want to have some margin of error. I'm no Rob Leatham. I'm certainly proficient, but let's face it, I want to have a tiny bit of fudge factor. .40S&W undeniably gives more fudge factor than a .380. I don't trust it to stop a bad guy 100% of the time. but I don't think anyone is going to say that it doesn't stand a better chance than a .380.
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okay okay i'll **** :eek:

Now I'll say it again. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH USING .380 FOR SD. My problem is that the larger guns like a P232, or Bersa, or the Beretta are too big for the round these days. That's my problem. I have a hard time rationalizing carrying the larger .380 guns. On the other hand there is massive caliber/gun ratio for something like an LCP, Kahr P380, or P3AT.
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the Bersa is lighter than other larger caliber guns of its size, conceals very easily and comfortably iwb... and is far more accurate than the pocket 380's. it's also dirt cheap. i can see why one would carry it.

have you fired a sig 238? i think that's the perfect tradeoff for a 380. small enough to still fit in your pocket, large and heavy enough (with real sights) to actually be accurate. unfortunately it's SA only (i don't want to have to remember anything in a self defense situation other than to pull the trigger).
 
Walther PPK if proven to be 100 % reliable (which mine isn't : failure to feed once in 2 dozen - factory- rounds or so)
 
Only just now checked out the other reactions : check out n° 64 by MTS840 :
I own just such a 1910-type Browning in .32 ACP, made by FN.

I love the looks of it (I'm a sucker for old-fashion handguns), it handles pretty well, has never ever failed to function and although the sights are all but non-existant, it points well enough to give credible close range (5 to 7 meters) hits.
Always wanted one in .380
 
+1 for the Sig P238 or the P3at. It really depends on what you want and what gun you can shoot well. I would bet good money you will be more accurate with the SA 238 than with the heavy DAO of the P3at, but you might not want to carry a SA pocket gun. I've owned both, and would buy another Sig before anything else. I just hated the trigger and recoil of the P3at. First time at the range it ripped a hole in my trigger finger! Don't let these guys scare you away from the 238, believe me, it's not heavy by any measure. As for being 1.1" thick, it sure feels thinner than that, I'll get my calipers out and check it.
 
I got the CZ 82 in 9mm Mak. I did not know that was different than a regular 9mm.

I could not find ammo for it, but my son has a Makarov PM and gave me some wolf ammo for practice and some Hornady rounds for carry.

Thanks, everyone. :)
 
Wife has a Beretta Cheetah 85 .380 and I have a CZ 83 .380. Both are excellent pistols, low recoil due to their weight and very accurate. Either is a good choice depending on which one fits your hand best.
 
Hi Girl,

Aimsurplus (among others online) has the 9x18 ammo...

http://www.aimsurplus.com/catalog.aspx?groupid=45


AmmunitionToGo also has the 9x18 Makarov:
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/index.php/cName/9x18-makarov-fmj-ammo


One word about the Wolf or Silver Bear ammo... its cheap (yes)... it shoots (yes) but some folks consider this ammo a bit dirty for their guns... with that CZ, you should be able to shoot anything you like in it... and ask around for more opinions and pointers about Wolf & Silver Bear ammo... you'll recognize it quick 'cause it usually comes in a steel cased cartridge, not brass...

Some of that kind of stuff is personal preference... then some of the stuff is opinion based on use and fact...

Of the ammo on the AmmunitionToGo page, I have used the Fiocchi (brand) ammo, with great results. It is a good factory ammo, and has a good pop (powder charge)... at least it does in my 9mm Luger rounds...

I am currently in a discussion with a fellow who has a CZ-83 (.380ACP) for sale. The asking price is right, I'm just waiting for Uncle Sam to send me my tax refund so I can buy the pistol from him.

As far as opinions on a .380 for folks who might read this thread later... I had a Sig P232 a while back. I didn't like it, because if you shoot (say) 100-200 rounds through it, it would start to jam the heel of my hand with a pretty good slam. The design of the Sig P232 is that the barrel is attached to the frame (I'm thionking the CZ-83 is also like this, but a heavier pistol...) so, at dis-assembly (when cleaning) the slide slips off, and the barrel is not loose in your hand like some other pistols. I discussed this with another gun friend, and we decided the ouchy recoil was due to the design of the pistol, the barrel attached to the frame, and that it was a fairly light pistol, which sends the recoil energy right down into the heel of your hand. I sold it, I didn't like it, it wasn't for me for that reason.

I have also learned by experience that the fit of a pistol in my hand increases my targeting and trigger setup for better results downrange. For example, I had a Glock 21 in .45ACP for a while. My accuracy was lacking with that pistol, because it has a fairly large grip.

Later I discovered the Magnum Research (Israeli Military Industries) Baby Eagle series of pistols. Wow. The fit to my hand was perfect, as if these folks had used my hand to design the pistol. I now have a 9mm and a .45ACP in this brand of pistol. (Similar to a CZ-75, etc. in design from what I have read...)

My accuracy, on the first day at the range with my Baby Eagle 9mm, and Fiocchi ammo, was the best I have ever shot in my life. Ammo does make a difference, but in my experience, it was how the pistol fit in my hand. When I am putting a pistol in my hand the first time, I have a little test that works for me. If my thumb can touch my index finger and overlap by about 1/2", I have a pistol I can shoot very accurately. That is the grip I have on both the 9mm and the .45ACP Baby Eagle pistols. Even with a double-stack 10rd. mag, in .45ACP caliber, the Baby Eagle fits like a glove... I swear by this method, and I would trust it to my life in a self-defense situation.

Other pistols, which do not fit my hand, do not fair as well on the first day to the range. And, they tend to need some sort of compensation on my part to gain any kind of acceptable accuracy. To me, accuracy with a pistol is everything. Even if it is just used to throw bullets down range while you run to get a shotgun or rifle, if accurate, it is useful for more than just pistol whipping somebody, or looking good in a hoslter at the range 'cause you bought a "Rolls Royce" for the sake of bragging rights, but in a high-stress, self-defense scenario, the Rolls Royce and no accuracy could cost you your life, or the life of one of your loved ones.

My 2 cents on handgun fit to the user.

Congrats on the CZ-82... lot's of them in service, therefore lot's of parts out there, and is you ever want a second one, lot's of them in the surplus market, too (fairly cheap on the AimSurplus page, etc...)

Now take her to the range, give her a name (I name all my weapons, lol), and have a BLAST (literally...)

GD2010
 
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With that .22LR, aim for the eye (and hope it doesn't glance off the skull) or the neck (hit the juggler vein). Or empty the clip into the bad guy's/bad girl's abdomen...

Nice grouping on those targets for the first time out. To me, the first time experience (in my preference) tells me that I will be doing pretty good if I need to defend myself with the weapon.
 
Nice grouping with the CZ, I prefer the 9x18. It is the secret of the 9mm rounds.

Manufacturers should make pocket pistols in this chambering instead of the .380.
 
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Thanks for the confidence in my shooting, I try to aim for the head this way they hard a hard time finding me.

I have found that the gun has to fit perfectly in my hand to shoot well also. Thanks, for the video.
 
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