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38spl/S&B primers/light strikes?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by ohihunter2014, May 9, 2017.

  1. ReloaderFred

    ReloaderFred Member

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    Primers backing out is a sign of a load that is too light.

    Nowhere have I seen it mentioned where you actually measured how deep below flush you've seated these primers. S&B primers are flat, and have to be seated all the way to the bottom of the primer pockets, like I said in post # 7. I don't think you're doing that. Get out your calipers and see how deep those primers are seated, which should be about .004" below flush.

    You spend a lot of time on the computer asking other people how to fix your problems, but you need to spend more time at your bench, figuring out some of these things for yourself. If you haven't read the front chapters of the Lyman Reloading Handbook, you need to, since it doesn't sound like you fully understand what happens when the firing pin strikes a primer.

    Domestic primers are made with the anvil standing slightly above the cup, so when they're properly seated, the anvil is set into the primer pellet. S&B primers are made with the anvil flush with the edge of the cup, and need to be fully seated so the primer doesn't move when the firing pin strikes it. When the firing pin strike is cushioned by the movement of the primer cup, it leaves shallow indentations, like hitting an object that is moving away from you verses a solid object.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
     
  2. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

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    My Airwieght is in unmodified condition. If only one primer, I find fault in the primer. If several, and of factory ammunition, I find fault in the firearm. If handloading it's most likely my procedure. I hope this 'more specific' opinion helps you in your practices.
     
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  3. ohihunter2014

    ohihunter2014 Member

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    All the rounds that failed to fire were pulled and the primer reseated again and will not move. I understand that the primer must be seated all the way but using my lee press to prime if i push anymore i will break the handle. the two that did not fire all had similar primer strikes like the ones that did fire. I prime the same way with cci for rifle and cci and s&b for 9mm and never had a misfire. Upon doing some google searches i found several threads on S&W forum and on here about light strikes with the model 642, could be me not seating them flush or the gun but i can assure you that they are all the way in. I will measure them (forgot about how to do that) and see what i come up with. I was happy 14 went off but more concerned with the way they looked after firing because i was within the guidelines and not close to max charge is why i brought this back up. I have more rifle rounds under my belt with cci and that might be why the s&b look odd to me like they are flattened or coming out. Also when i prime i run my finger across them and they are below flush.

    Not to be rude on this part but some people learn a certain way by asking a specific question the book might now give info for. I have learned way more from here in the beginning then using the hornady manual which is more hornady tooting their own horn and the lyman which IMO shows more lead/casting stuff.
     
  4. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

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    I too have learned from the conversations taking place here, for sometime now. There are several ways to put words together that mean the same thing. One way may make more sense to the listener(reader). Admittedly I am an auto enthusiast, but would never trade my Smith for anything. Hopefully a good cleaning will solve your problems. I would need to take it to a gun smith for this. I can disassemble a nineteen eleven and a Desert Eagle, but the thirty - eight remains a magical mystery. Scary accurate too. I wish you the best luck with your research.
     
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  5. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Listen to what Fred is telling you. ;)
     
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  6. kerreckt

    kerreckt Member

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    Excellent advice. Spending time exploring and figuring out why something is happening (or not) is an opportunity to truly learn. Asking other folks for an answer is an opportunity to stay stuck and not learn. When I explore and try to figure out a problem, the real prize is not the solution of the immediate problem, but all the things I learn to help solve later problems. Oftentimes, you learn things without realizing the future benefits. Best wishes
     
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  7. Dudedog
    • Contributing Member

    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    It was a while back but I had one lot of S+B SP where a couple primers seemed to have loose anvils that came out when I dumped them in my Lee hand primer. (don't recall the exact number but maybe 3 out of 1000, no issues with any other lots) I noticed it because looking at the primers in the tray it was easy to spot one that looked "funny". I can see how it might be easy to miss one however. If you are careful you can deprime the case (WEAR safety glasses!) and verify it has an anvil. Might try it in a different case as well but I doubt there are issues with the brass. Just a thought but If the primer dosen't fire in your pistol you might pull the bullet and if you have a friend who has a .38/.357 see if his/her pistol will set it off. That way you can maybe narrow it down between the primer, the way it's seated or the pistol.
    Hope you get to the bottom of it.
     
  8. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I just loaded a bunch of their SP primers in 9MM, so far so good.
     
  9. Dudedog
    • Contributing Member

    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    I have shot 10-12K in 9mm and other that the few above no issues in any of my 9mm guns. (They were not really an issue since I caught them before they were loaded)
    Quite happy with the at the price.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2017 at 1:45 PM
  10. ohihunter2014

    ohihunter2014 Member

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    Just loaded up 20rds with cci primers. I also loaded 10 with s-b primers. The s-b seem to be grabby when seating and cci goes in smooth. I can't seat the s-b any deeper so we shall see what primer fails and what doesn't.
     
  11. ohihunter2014

    ohihunter2014 Member

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    We'll all the cci went off with normal primer strikes and 5 s-b did not fire or had very light strikes after firing. Just going to run cci through the 38 and save the s-b for 9mm. 50rds of 9mm with s-b all went off with normal strikes.
     
  12. 2bfree

    2bfree Member

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    So does this mean, 5 did not fire or 5 fired but had lighter firing marks. If they did not fire did you try a second strike ?
     
  13. ohihunter2014

    ohihunter2014 Member

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    1ftf and others had light strikes. I even cycled the gun another round to get them to go off but they would not. I forgot to add they are only about .01-2k below flush and won't go any deeper. Cci are same but all went off. Any thoughts on uniforming the pockets?
     
  14. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    1 thousandths is .001. ;)

    Or 1k, but not .01k.

    You're not getting the S&B primers seated deep enough with whatever tool you are using. Uniforming the pockets will cut the bottom, but in general shouldn't touch the sides. They are designed to cut them all to the same depth and flat at the bottom.
     
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  15. ReloaderFred

    ReloaderFred Member

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    Are you using the small primer punch to seat these primers? You need to get those flat S&B primers seated all the way to the bottom of the primer pocket to set the anvil into the priming pellet. That means the primers should be .004" below flush, minimum..

    I've loaded over 30,000 of the S&B primers, in several different calibers, fired through several different firearms (pistols and revolvers) and I've yet to have a misfire or any other problem with them. I use a Ram Prime press mounted priming tool to seat all my primers, simply because I can set the depth I want them seated and all the primers are seated to that depth, which is .004" below flush.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
     
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  16. redbullitt

    redbullitt Member

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    I think the SB primers are a little harder than average. I have an SP101 in 357 that I tried a few different trigger and hammer spring combinations with. The SB and CCI primers seemed to be the toughest to pop in my gun. Once I got the springs sorted out they did just fine. That is the only gun that has ever done that.

    No issues here on other pistols or rifles, and I shoot plenty of them.
     
  17. ohihunter2014

    ohihunter2014 Member

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    Hard to type on the phone with catchers mits for hands. Sorry I'm using the lee safety prime. I literally can't go deeper as it feels like I'm going to snap the lever.
     
  18. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Get a hand primer or bench primer.

    I won't even try on a phone. :)
     
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  19. kerreckt

    kerreckt Member

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    I guess this one has been beaten to death. We have come full circle back to seating depth. This issue with different primers has been covered a number of times and it seems to come back to seating depth, most every time. A small problem talked into a big problem, IMHO.
     
  20. ohihunter2014

    ohihunter2014 Member

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    I'm going to take the priming arm off and clean it. I measured the 9mm cases with the same primers and seating the same and they are 4-5k below and I even found a couple 8-9k below. I swear to you guys if i push on that handle any harder it will bend it. could it be the brass seeing how when I got it the length varied by 10k? all the cci's went off so ill probably just use those for the 38spl.
     

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