3D Printed Liberator Pistol: Video, more angles, loading detail

[mgmorden]

Well let's be honest here though. Really it's "Put the power back in to the people-who-can-afford-a-$8000-3D-printer's hand." I don't think this really gives your common man a more viable resistance weapon that they couldn't build more effectively with a pipe and a handful of home improvement supplies.

Today's $8000 3D-printer is tommorrow's $150 special at Best Buy. Trust me, technology like this gets cheap and FAST. I remember when flat panel monitors came out I told my roommate that I wanted one (thought they were cool). He laughed at how "stupid" I was because 15" ones were several thousand dollars at the time. Less than 3 years later I had a 17" model sitting on my desk that I paid $350 for. Now less than 10 years later you can get a 23" one for under $150.

More so than anything else, technology drops in price over time.

 

[gym]

Don't forget that 15 or so years ago, a good computer would cost $2-3000.00 dollars, and an Apple still does. You can easily spend 5 grand on the newest apple desktop or laptop. So this is not that far out considering my next door neighbor has several new apple machines and monitors. I myself have 3, and 6 monitors, But I have been building machines since they first came out.
I am sure that you will be able to buy of make you own 3d printer for a couple thousand or less in a few years. And as the designs get better and the "materials" that are used for resins get stronger. You could see a fully functional semi or revolver type gun made that would function almost as good as a low end new pistol. Perhaps a few metal parts will be needed like springs or barrels, but that could easily be overcome with a "kit" of some sort.
That would open a whole new market, good, or bad, I don't know. But I do know that the government will do something about it before it gets there but it's impossible to prevent the software from getting out and into anyone's hands who can use a search engine or has ever seen the hacking websites that have just about anything you can imagine on them

 

[jerkface11]

But I do know that the government will do something about it before it gets there

Didn't they ban all plastic guns in the 80's?

 

[Old Fuff]

I understand that they have made an AR15, lower, so I presume that a 1911 Colt-style frame wouldn't be out of the question. All of the other parts are unrestricted and easily available.

The leftist mainstream media knows absolutely nothing about guns, and as a consequence will blow this thing way out of proportion. Some of them still believe that a Glock pistol cannot be detected by an airport scanner, and the general public can buy "cop-killer" bullets. I expect Sen. Shumer will demand FBI background checks on 3D printer buyers. As it is said, they're is no cure for stupid.

Not to worry, by next week the media will have forgoten all of this and moved on to something else.

 

[BBQJOE]

I think this all just goes to show that try as they might, there is no way to keep firearms from anyone. Something like this just about nullifies gun control.

 

[DNS]

I'm waiting for the app.

 

[hnk45acp]

The tech will get cheaper and the materials will be more commonplace. It's not the end product that's important it's the power to become a manufacturer and controller of your own technology without other institutions (gun companies, shipping companies, parts companies and the govt.) getting involved.
Buy printer, get material and that's it.

 

[Old Fuff]

From pre-history to present, as long as they're have been weapons someone has tried to control who could have them, and without exception those efforts failed as technology brought forth improved and better ones. This example is simply another example - but by no means the only one.

So those who want to control who can have what will try to excercise control over the technology, and ultimately they will fail again.

 

[amflyer]

Want to impress me? Print me up a case of CCI Mini-Mags, then we'll talk. Otherwise it's just a stunt.

 

[mgmorden]

Want to impress me? Print me up a case of CCI Mini-Mags, then we'll talk. Otherwise it's just a stunt.

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

"But what...is it good for?"
- Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip

"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of DEC

History is full of people who thought a lot of technology was useless or "just a stunt". Trust me - 3D printing is revolutionary. Not just for guns (that's just a the on-topic part of the tech for this board), but just in general. Being able to replicate plastic objects (and other materials as the tech matures) at home with the click of the mouse is HUGE.

I'd wager that within the next 10-15 years, you'll find a 3D printer in almost every household, and the ones that you'll be buying for your home in 15 years will make today's uberexpensive ones look like toys.

 

[Nathanael_Greene]

How long before somebody asks for a 3-d printable holster?

 

[BADUNAME30]

Well there goes all the plastic now to panic buying driving all other petrolium product prices thru the roof.
Mmmm... milk will now go back into glass bottles and taste soooo good

 

[gym]

That "the holster" would be similar to the glock holster and could be done easily now. In the 60's I worked on an IC, Integrated Circuit" testing machine, that was the size of 2 Jen air ovens, for the Government, My dads plant was a subcontractor for al the big guys of the day, "Most are gone now", Grumman, Lockheed, Republic, etc. But I remember from the "transistor" days we would say how the heck much can they possibly put on these chips?
And they were huge then, like the size of a small "flash drive", It's amazing how much we have evolved since then, someone sent me an email of things that weren't around in the 1920's and I just looked at it for 10 minutes, trying to imagine what life was like back then,
At the rate we progress technologically we haven't seen anything yet. I believe that in a few years you will be able to order some things online, not just guns, and it will be printed to your printer. Of course not all items can be duplicated but a lot can, and as the technology goes forward it will get more sophisticated so as to possibly make the internals of an object by scanning it with new types of lasers, and new materials that are being developed.
Meanwhile I still drop calls on my new cell phone, and tires still last 2 years tops.
People are spending a million dollars to see the moon, but you can't get an operator to answer your local bank.
I think once they formulate a resin that is just "harder & stronger "than what they have now, it will be the dawn of a new day for guns. Weather they can make a rifled barrel in the future has a lot to do with it also, it probably will happen, just like springs , "when they find a new material".

 

[Sambo82]

The tech will get cheaper and the materials will be more commonplace. It's not the end product that's important it's the power to become a manufacturer and controller of your own technology without other institutions (gun companies, shipping companies, parts companies and the govt.) getting involved. Buy printer, get material and that's it.

Bingo. I think people here are really missing the significance of this. I know people feel that he's giving gun owners a bad image, but the entire point of this is to create a world where it doesn't matter what people feel about gun ownership, because it would be unregulatable. If these cad files are freely available for download, say on a torrent hosting site, then the government could no more regulate them then they can regulate common media piracy.

Yes, zip guns have been around for a long time. Yes, with a length of pipe and some hand tools someone could make a slam fire shotgun in their garage, but the image and idea of being able to manufacture a firearm, from start to finish with little firearms knowledge from your home computer is profound. "Watershed" might be too strong of a word, but I have literally won dozens of arguments with anti's bent on regulation by bringing up the fact that anyone, anyone, can just "print" a firearm from home. Under such circumstances they have to concede that banning would do no good for obvious reasons, and background checks would do no good because there is no transaction. When I then ask them if they have any other ideas, they respond in the negative, and I usually close by telling them that technology has simply changed our ability to regulate things.

The price of printers is dropping on a weekly basis, and more and more often they can print with better materials. Printing in aluminum and even titanium is possible now, and it's a matter of time before that becomes affordable, too. Cody Wilson's slightly arrogant personality aside, this is kind of a big deal.

 

[inherentical]

The first CD burner I bought back in the '90s cost $2000 and took forever to burn a CD.

Where will this tech be in 20 years?

 

[BobTheTomato]

Most of the printers use plastic right now. Just imagine when you can print with metals that have a halfway decent strength to them. A printer like that plus a scanner and as long as you can break down your firearm you can copy it.

 

[junyo]

I don't think he's really proving any points with the opposition at all. They don't see this as a situation where "gee, this makes our gun control useless" they see it as "Holy cow, we need to really step up our gun control plans and regulate home construction because are printing these out now."

And?

They can regulate whatever ever they want. Unless they ban the internet, plastic filament and stepper motors they can suck it. Again, that's the point. And with the people that understand this - which is most of the sub 25 year old population of the first world - it looks like confused old men who don't understand the universe that they now inhabit, railing about the dangers of rock and roll and demon rum. It's a cultural wedge issue for the RKBA movement. Please, please, please God let the gun grabbers try and control/outlaw 3D printers. They'd make every maker in the world convert to our side.

 

[444]

I am sure this hasn't been lost on the people here, but the ability to make a gun didn't start with 3D printing.

Every gun ever made was built on machine tools that any one of us could own. Lathes, mills, drills................................. were the ancestors of 3D printing and they not only CAN make a gun, they made every gun ever produced.

So what is the difference ?

 

[The-Reaver]

I think the point is instead of supplying France with pistols. This takes the place for modern America. We can just pump these things out.

 

[jerkface11]

How many would you have to turn in at gun buybacks to pay for the printer and supplies?

 

[Nickel Plated]

So what is the difference ?

3D printers are (or soon will be) easy to use by anyone and will be in practically every home in the U.S.

Lathes, mills, and drills require skill that many people don't have time or money to learn and require at least some workshop space to store and operate that many people simply don't have. (Try running a lathe and mill in a studio apartment)

With a 3D printer, you download a gun design (which I'm sure will be plentiful once the market gets going) click "Print" and go take a nap. Enjoy your new gun in a couple of hours.

 

[junyo]

I am sure this hasn't been lost on the people here, but the ability to make a gun didn't start with 3D printing.

Every gun ever made was built on machine tools that any one of us could own. Lathes, mills, drills................................. were the ancestors of 3D printing and they not only CAN make a gun, they made every gun ever produced.

So what is the difference ?

Democratization, cost and simplicity.

The fact that tools exist that allow something to be created isn't the same thing as those tools being cheap, available or easy to use. Photography didn't start with digital, but digital photography sure as heck was a seismic shift. Because it made a PITA process (developing your own film and/or printing your own images isn't that hard, how many people actually did it on a regular basis?) simple, faster and cheaper. A guy with a decent camera and a PC could now afford to shoot a lot, learn, and experiment; thus he was largely put on the same footing with the local 'pro' (whether that increased the quality of photography is a different conversation).

People keep looking at the object produced and not what the process represents, or how it's being marketed. Long before DD was pushing this I was telling people that technology would obsolete gun control, and the answer was 'Sure, for people like you, cause you're a tech guy.' The willful ignorance of the gun control advocate is that guns are super complicated; if people want to be mad, they should be mad at the enterprising CNC mill maker didn't publicise his sub $1k 3 axis CNC mill that could be operated by anyone that can use Sketchup. Oh yeah, there isn't one. And they're not exactly simple to operate. Lathes, mills, drills represent an entirely different level of cost and complexity than a printer. Sure they do a better job, now. But the printing technology is a lot less far along it's life cycle than physical machining tech is. What's different here is the down the road potential of the completely untrained/unskilled person to be able to produce a functional defensive firearm, and what that means to the future of the state's ability to control the RKBA.

 

[Dean Weingarten]

I believe that Defense Distributed's demonstrated ability to print functional magazines had an impact in getting that restriction dropped from the debate.

 

[splattergun]

As was mentioned in an earlier post, 3D printers are sold as low as $500. They are not complicated to use. I's nearly as simple as sending a Word file to your inkjet. 5 years ago my daughter was using a $10,000 3D printer (while they were still a new novelty) in a high school technology class. The class got 2 hours of training on the CAD software and 30 minutes training on the machine. 2 weeks later she was printing prototypes of a complicated bushing/bolt of her own design. The learning curve to print a simple gun for which drawings already exist is not extremely steep.

But the 3D pistol is not a serious threat, IMO. It is impractical even as a "Liberator" or "Zip" gun. ABS plastic is quite brittle, has a low melting temp and, unless you want to spend the money for virgin plastic, quite inconsistent quality. Yes, printers and materials will improve in quality and come down in price. A few guns will be printed. Some will Kaboom, demonstrating the weakness of the concept. But I don't believe they will replace even the cheapest Saturday night special in our mythology.

 

[Nickel Plated]

But the 3D pistol is not a serious threat, IMO. It is impractical even as a "Liberator" or "Zip" gun. ABS plastic is quite brittle, has a low melting temp and, unless you want to spend the money for virgin plastic, quite inconsistent quality. Yes, printers and materials will improve in quality and come down in price. A few guns will be printed. Some will Kaboom, demonstrating the weakness of the concept. But I don't believe they will replace even the cheapest Saturday night special in our mythology.

Once they start printing in metal (some of which already can infact) then it will be perfectly possible to build a gun that's more than just a single-shot, manually-loaded zip gun. Semi-automatics and revolvers will be entirely possible.
At that point I believe it will easily replace atleast the lower end pistols on the market. Simply because it'll be the way which those lower end pistols are made.
If a company wants to make a gun on a budget, why spend money on all the mills, lathes, drills and people needed to operate them when you can have one machine take the place of pretty much all of them and just have a couple of guys for the whole shop just to keep an eye on things and feed more material in the printer.