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40 s&w and panic buying

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by TennJed, Dec 28, 2012.

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  1. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    As said, .40 is THE LE round, but has not gained as much acceptance in the civilian market, and has even been dying out a bit in more recent years.

    No doubt part of it was the expiration of the AWB. .40 was introduced just 5 years before the ban, and when you could only have 10 rounds, might as well make them bigger. But once the ban sunsetted, the appeal of the 9mm became much stronger. On the other end, widespread CCW has made the micro gun market very strong, but technical and practical limitations of tiny guns make the 9mm the top end of power in a true pocket piece. Kel Tec discontinued the P40 because excessive recoil was causing a lot of user-induced malfunctions. The little Kahr .40s are a handful, and remain unpopular compared to the 9mm models.

    Additionally, the parent of the .40 S&W, the 10mm auto, has been enjoying a resurgence the last few years. I think much of the thought process there is that if you're going to have a full sized gun, might as well pack the most punch. As well, the 10mm is more flexible.

    The .40 isn't a bad round, but it's sacrificed capacity and increased recoil over 9mm hurts it on that end, the sharper recoil impulse for marginal capacity increase versus .45 hurts it on the other end, and offering less performance than 10mm in a gun of equal capacity doesn't help it gain popularity with people who want capacity and power.
     
  2. srtolly

    srtolly Member

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    I'm one of those people that likes the .40 S&W round. I have 9, .40 and .45 among others. I like the slightly sharper recoil. I can load it for major or minor power factor easily. I would even trade off my 9mm gear for .40.

    Don't get me wrong, I like 9mm and .45acp. I've been considering a Glock 22 or a Walther P99 for my next purchase.
     
  3. taraquian

    taraquian Member

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    Around here the .40 sells pretty good usually, but I have noticed the 9mms are what the panickers get, I think that its just that high capacity means two very different things between 9 and .40. My compact 9mm holds 14 and my very fullsize .40 holds 14, fullsize 9 packs in 18, all are cz 75 style.

    If everyone is worried about mag restrictions, a gun that only held 12-14 in hi cap is easier to 'give up' than 18-20.
     
  4. Jenrick

    Jenrick Member

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    .40 S&W got lucky and was introduced around the time reliable expanding JHP's started to really get acceptance in LE. If the .40 S&W had been introduced as an FMJ round, I doubt it would be anything other then an interesting foot note.

    -Jenrick
     
  5. Sauer Grapes

    Sauer Grapes Member

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    If your not competing in competion or need to shoot thru car doors and windows, I doubt the .40 would interest a lot of people.
    If your like me and carry a full size handgun, giving up a couple rounds to a 9mm is not a big deal. I also think the .40 gives reloaders more options for SD and target\plinking options.
    It'll never replace my 45s' for accuracy, but it's not far behind it.

    Some have mentioned recoil. I can see where the sub compact platform could be distasteful to shoot. I sometimes carry a PT709. I don't think I'd like to venture into like the PT740.
    That's where the 9mm shines IMO.
     
  6. REAPER4206969

    REAPER4206969 Member

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    The .40 is only 23 years old, which is "brand new" in the gun world.

    Of course it will be less popular than the 111 year old 9mm.
     
  7. REAPER4206969

    REAPER4206969 Member

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    U.S. Army special forces use the Glock 22.

    The Coast Guard uses .40 as well, if you consider them a military force.
     
  8. Highland Ranger

    Highland Ranger Member

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    That's because it had just been introduced. I believe in 1992 or thereabouts.

    Supposedly the solution to the 9mm "problem".

    I bought one the first guns built from the ground up as a 40 - the HK USP. Like it but all these years later when newbies ask me what caliber, I'd go 9 or 45 before recommending 40. Too "snappy" the 40 is.

    Maybe its just me but 9mm seems inherently easier to shoot closely followed by the 45. I rarely shoot the 40 these days and never bought a second gun in that caliber.
     
  9. REAPER4206969

    REAPER4206969 Member

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    The .40 was introduced on January 17, 1990.
     
  10. SOUTHPAW

    SOUTHPAW Member

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    Well, the 9 and 45 are softer shooters, in low pressure, that is.

    I think the issue many have with .40 feeling too snappy is what they are comparing it to. The .40 is by design a high pressure cartridge. One simply can not compare 115gr standard pressure 9mm to a .40...

    I don't remember if I was told this somewhere, or if I just dreampt it up, but I thought the .40 S&W was originally introduced after the Feds scrapped the .45 in favor of the 10mm, then scrapped the 10mm, and Smith figured they could use the same bullets and just shorten the cartridge a little. Basically seizing the open market without having to reinvent the wheel so to speak. And that can be total BS, I honestly don't know.

    As I mentioned, I only own one .40, and only bought it last year. I shoot mostly 9 and 45. The one, new .40 has quickly become my EDC and here's why: my primary carry guns used to always be 9mm. Cheap, 115gr 9mm is great to shoot at the range, but to be as proficient as possible, you should really shoot the same ammo as what you carry. Shooting tons of high quality, +P 9mm (I always carry Winchester PDX-1) is crazy at $1/round... With the .40 I can shoot hundreds of cheap, Walmart WWB for practice, then load up my premium carry ammo and it is consistent...
     
  11. armsmaster270

    armsmaster270 Member

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    The Coast Guard is indeed a Military force just ask the Coasties that were in Vietnam and the middle east. Douglas Munro ls the lone Coast Guard Medal of Honor recipient from WWII Guadalcanal Campaign. They are also a Federal LE force as well as a Search & Rescue force.
     
  12. REAPER4206969

    REAPER4206969 Member

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    You are aware that standard 9x19 loads are 35,000psi and max loads for .40 are...35,000psi?

    9mm+P is 38,500psi and 9mm+P+ can go up to 43,000+psi.
     
  13. Highland Ranger

    Highland Ranger Member

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    Interesting - why is the 40 "snappy" then?
     
  14. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Coast Guard is unique. They're department of homeland security during peacetime, Navy during war. So they can be either military or a federal LE agency.
     
  15. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

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    PSI means pressure per square inch. A bigger diameter bullet has more square inches. So for the same pressure you get the same weight bullet moving faster. Pretty simple, really.

    The 40SW has 27 percent greater area. 1.27x 35,000 psi = 44,450psi. That's the number that will have more meaning in a comparison of energy/recoil, if you used same-weight projectiles and optimal powders for each. The rest is up to case capacity. More capacity means you can use a slower powder. Also, using a heavier projectile generally leads to relatively more momentum/recoil and less energy.

    Consider 45ACP. In the same size platform, there's no comparison. It has more recoil than 9mm. And it has a max pressure of only 21,000 psi.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2012
  16. meanmrmustard

    meanmrmustard Member

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    Hell yes. And at a ridiculous rate.
     
  17. David E

    David E Member

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    I was amazed in 2008 that .22 LR was snapped up so fast and for so long, same as now. (the duration yet to be seen) I still don't fully understand why. I'm just glad I already have some.
     
  18. heeler

    heeler Member

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    Having read this post several hours ago I just moved on being I have no desire to own a 40 caliber pistol but this evening I found myself at Walmart looking for something entirely unrelated to firearms when my girlfriend decided to fawn over marked down Christmas ornaments I went over to the sporting goods and except for 30-30,270.and 30-06 ammo basically all pistol ammo was gone except...40 S&W.....Amazing I so thought...
     
  19. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

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    I love 40SW. In the right platform, there's very little difference in recoil. There's very little difference in magazine capacity. And as a reloader, I feel like I can make a more effective round when using cast bullets (also nice that all the data is essentially for max loads, but no one posts +P 9mm data). It doesn't hurt that you can buy a 9mm conversion barrel for most popular 40SW handguns, either.

    I would like to get a Charter Arms Pitbull, even. But i haven't caught wind of one, yet.
     
  20. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    Another .40S&W fan here. When I did research for my first semi-auto, the .40 won. I own semis in 9mm, .45 ACP, and .380 now as well, but .40S&W is still my first choice semi-auto round.

    I no longer buy factory .40cal ammo, but it's good to know I could if I needed to.
     
  21. Rockyriver

    Rockyriver Member

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    40 fan here also, I feel as many police departmants use it, then that means that their research and others must prove its a better round than the 9MM.
    I also own 9MM, however I grab the 40 when I go out to get grocerys or to the store. It may be silly, but I don't feel under gunned when I carry a 40.
    180 grain HST Federal is my load of choice.
     
  22. DAdams

    DAdams Member

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    From a prudencey standpoint I have handguns in 7 calibers. 40 didn't interest me much until 2008 when 9 and 45 were scarce commodities and 40 was abundant and so were the handguns. When it comes to stocking up and PD, "snappy" isn't an issue.

    If I were a new consumer to the home and PD market (and felt the need to get something right away) and 40 was the only game in town I wouldn't hesitate to make it a viable selection particularly a full size unit and in addition to a home pump 12 ga.
     
  23. anchorman

    anchorman Member

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    I've been wondering this too. makes me glad I got interested in bolt actions and accurate shooting (not that I'm a pro at that by any means yet) rather than the fun of dumping quantities of lead down range. Saves ammo for now.
     
  24. Clinton

    Clinton Member

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    Im picking up my first gun tomorrow. Never shot a 40.... but wanted something bigger than a 9 and the 45 was big for me in the palm. So with that went uptown and the xd40 was calling my name and has a home timorrow. With that im not an avid shooter but do keep up on this stuff best I can. With that also got the dillon rl550b coming in the next couple days to reload my own. This gun will be my home protection and possibly my ccw once Illinois gets their ccw stuff worked out. Also. Wanted a semi in the event a ban comes up I have it. For me I feel it a win win. Let you know after I get home from the range tomorrow.......

    Clinton
     
  25. Clinton

    Clinton Member

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    Oh one more thing to mention is if I cant do the job w 1 or 2 rounds I wont be needing the other 10 rounds.... so capacity is not an issue and can buy if you can find one a high cap mag for up to 20 rounds if not mistaken?

    Clinton
     
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