40 s&w: is it that bad of a caliber for outdoor use?

[bearcreek]

All of this begs a question…. if you were in the market for a 40 today, what would you get?

A 9mm.

 

[Buckeye63]

I carry my Glock 23 often when walking the fence line or checking on the springs .. ideally its good to carry a shotgun.. but I use a walking stick or use a hoe or a long handled shovel.. I also bring along a claw hammer and a 1/2 pound of fence staples so weight of a firearm is a concern.
We have quite a few big black bears in this area .. 375 to 400 pound bears are common.
Young male bears & momma bears can be aggressive.
I carry 180gr FN FMJ ammo ..

 

[mavracer]

All of this begs a question…. if you were in the market for a 40 today, what would you get?

Back when the .40 came out, I always said it was an answer to a question I didn't ask, I was perfectly happy with 9mm, 10mm and 45 ACP. Used to joke that if I won the lottery I'd buy a bunch of 40s in guns I didn't like.

Then when the 40 fell out of favor and in my typical swim against the current, I had a chance to buy a LE trade in G23 for a steal.
Tried real hard to like it but Glocks just don't fit well in my hand and it went bye bye. But now I had a bunch of 40 ammo and a buyers market for 40 S&W pistols.
Bought a FN FNS40 it's great, it's my nightstand gun.
Bought a HK USP great gun but a little big for my hand another short lived affair.
Bought a Springfield XDm 5.25 competition put a powder river trigger in it, makes a nice target pistol.
Bought a Steyr really nice gun but got a smoking deal on a XDm 3.8 compact 40 that made the Steyr superfluous, either one is IMHO a near perfect woods packing gun.
The last 40 I still own is a Walther PPS talk about a pocket rocket, IMHO it's an even match for a snub 357 for a woods packing pocket pistol.

 

[Anchorite]

Back when the .40 came out, I always said it was an answer to a question I didn't ask, I was perfectly happy with 9mm, 10mm and 45 ACP. Used to joke that if I won the lottery I'd buy a bunch of 40s in guns I didn't like.

Then when the 40 fell out of favor and in my typical swim against the current, I had a chance to buy a LE trade in G23 for a steal.
Tried real hard to like it but Glocks just don't fit well in my hand and it went bye bye. But now I had a bunch of 40 ammo and a buyers market for 40 S&W pistols.
Bought a FN FNS40 it's great, it's my nightstand gun.
Bought a HK USP great gun but a little big for my hand another short lived affair.
Bought a Springfield XDm 5.25 competition put a powder river trigger in it, makes a nice target pistol.
Bought a Steyr really nice gun but got a smoking deal on a XDm 3.8 compact 40 that made the Steyr superfluous, either one is IMHO a near perfect woods packing gun.
The last 40 I still own is a Walther PPS talk about a pocket rocket, IMHO it's an even match for a snub 357 for a woods packing pocket pistol.

Like you, I was always content with my 9/45 until I happened into a LEO Glock trade in. In this case it was a G22.3 with the “fish scales,” and I could just not say no and had to try it.
That led next to a mint condition 4006 and P229. Both were just too good a deal to pass up.

I dropped a 9mm barrel into the 22 and have been content with it ever since. I find the 40 to offer advantages over the 9mm, so for me, it’s not going to be extinct anytime in my lifetime if I can help it. I hope the marketplace comes back around and we see a 40 resurgence.

 

[someguy2800]

I'm a fan of 40 s&w. The load on the left is a Montana Bullet Works 200 grain WFN over longshot. If I remember correctly it goes 1130 fps from my G22 and like 1500 from my sub2000. I've played around in Quickload quite a bit with 40 and 10mm. If both are loaded to the same pressure there is only about 50-75 fps difference, which means there is considerable overlap between the hottest 40 s&w and the weakest 10mm.

 

[bearcreek]

Heck, based on almost every police shooting I’ve seen on the interwebs, a lot of cops don’t stop until they get to slidelock!

Now, I’m NOT judging because I’ve not been in their spot ever, but dang, for me it’s almost borderline insane when I see two or three cops mag dump into a perp.

That's not really a new thing. Ever hear of Frank Hamer?

 

[Anchorite]

I'm a fan of 40 s&w. The load on the left is a Montana Bullet Works 200 grain WFN over longshot. If I remember correctly it goes 1130 fps from my G22 and like 1500 from my sub2000. I've played around in Quickload quite a bit with 40 and 10mm. If both are loaded to the same pressure there is only about 50-75 fps difference.

Who’d a thunk? I’d take my 40 with that load into the backwoods. And to think some people believe the 10mm is what you have to have!

 

[someguy2800]

Who’d a thunk? I’d take my 40 with that load into the backwoods. And to think some people believe the 10mm is what you have to have!

Here is what I find really ironic. HSM's "Bear Load" that they sell in 10mm is a 200gr WFN at an advertised 1041 FPS. Yes, only 10mm will do!

HSM Bear 10mm Auto Ammo 200 Grain Flat Nose Box of 20

Developed as a load to protect hunters while hunting or traveling in bear country, this American made ammunition is sure to keep you safe with its...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[Anchorite]

Here is what I find really ironic. HSM's "Bear Load" that they sell in 10mm is a 200gr WFN at an advertised 1041 FPS. Yes, only 10mm will do!

HSM Bear 10mm Auto Ammo 200 Grain Flat Nose Box of 20

Developed as a load to protect hunters while hunting or traveling in bear country, this American made ammunition is sure to keep you safe with its...

www.midwayusa.com

I’m running a 170gr +P out of my stock G22.3 that does an honest 1200fps.

 

[Robbins290]

I’m running a 170gr +P out of my stock G22.3 that does an honest 1200fps.

I prefer a 220 grain going 1200 FPS.
But that load you have is no slouch. Im curious what that would do with a longer barrel.

 

[someguy2800]

For what its worth, in order to actually get a 220 grain to 1200 from a 5" 10mm in quickload I have to turn the pressure up to 46,000 psi. Take that for what you will.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Not sure why but in the Northeast many shooters look down on the 40 S&W. There are a couple gun stores in MA that will openly mock you if you mention it. They even have a sign on their front door.

Overall I have no problem with it. Have a Sig 229 that came in 40. I purchased a 357 Sig and 9mm barrel for it. It’s interesting shooting all three at a single range sessions. The recoil and POI differences make it fun switching around.

 

[Robbins290]

Not sure why but in the Northeast many shooters look down on the 40 S&W. There are a couple gun stores in MA that will openly mock you if you mention it. They even have a sign on their front door.

Overall I have no problem with it. Have a Sig 229 that came in 40. I purchased a 357 Sig and 9mm barrel for it. It’s interesting shooting all three at a single range sessions. The recoil and POI differences make it fun switching around.

I dont either. I have 5 40’s. I prefer 9mm and 10mm. I also do not discriminate calibers. I have just about evert semi auto caliber minus the more exotic and wild cats.

 

[TTv2]

Not sure why but in the Northeast many shooters look down on the 40 S&W. There are a couple gun stores in MA that will openly mock you if you mention it. They even have a sign on their front door.

Overall I have no problem with it. Have a Sig 229 that came in 40. I purchased a 357 Sig and 9mm barrel for it. It’s interesting shooting all three at a single range sessions. The recoil and POI differences make it fun switching around.

Probably because the gun stores can't sell them when people go to trade them in.

I think it's thinly veiled skinflinting. They don't want to say that because 9mm is the cheapest ammo that's why they shoot it, but it's a large factor on top of the low recoil.

Odd tho how when lower recoil than 9mm is desired that's mocked too for being weak and ineffective and also more expensive than 9mm.

 

[WisBorn]

I like Midway USA. I look at the number of different load options that they offer (this doesn't mean currently in stock). This is a little indicator of popularity.

40 S&W 107 offerings
9mm 226
45acp 121
10mm 95

With 107 different loads in 40s&w I don't think that it is going away anytime soon.

10mm hardcast I prefer the 200 grain from Underwood. It seams like the 220 grain can be hit or miss on there reliability. I have never had any issues with the 200 grain. They are advertised at 1250 fps and 694#s of energy.

 

[TTv2]

Here is what I find really ironic. HSM's "Bear Load" that they sell in 10mm is a 200gr WFN at an advertised 1041 FPS. Yes, only 10mm will do!

HSM Bear 10mm Auto Ammo 200 Grain Flat Nose Box of 20

Developed as a load to protect hunters while hunting or traveling in bear country, this American made ammunition is sure to keep you safe with its...

www.midwayusa.com

This is an issue I see with 10mm and manufacturers cutting corners in the only change they make after doing a run of .40 is they just raise the presses and keep the powder charge the same between .40 and 10. Saves them time and money and the loser is the consumer who buys the ammo.

The only solution for the consumer is identify who makes factory 10mm correctly with the proper powder charges to get higher velocity and who doesn't and don't buy from the cheapskates.

Or, better yet, reload your own 10mm and have an unlimited amount of 200gr loads that do 1150 from your guns all day for the rest of your life.

 

[mavracer]

I'm a fan of 40 s&w. The load on the left is a Montana Bullet Works 200 grain WFN over longshot. If I remember correctly it goes 1130 fps from my G22 and like 1500 from my sub2000. I've played around in Quickload quite a bit with 40 and 10mm. If both are loaded to the same pressure there is only about 50-75 fps difference, which means there is considerable overlap between the hottest 40 s&w and the weakest 10mm.

What OAL is that 40 load?

 

[dla]

I’m running a 170gr +P out of my stock G22.3 that does an honest 1200fps.

I'm assuming it is an LSWC. I'd love to see a penetration test - I'll bet that would drill a hole a long ways.
Good bear zapper - penetrates the fall fat layer.

 

[dla]

What OAL is that 40 load?

An M&P40 2.0 has perfect casehead support - a bit of trivia.
Most 40sw magazines can handle 1.17" - I load my 40sw to 1.16".

Most 40sw pistols are far less bulky than their 10mm brethren.

 

[buttrap]

As cheep as surplus .40 guns are going for now what's not to like there? Plus its almost dirt cheep to get a .357 barrel for the same gun and have both. Sure its not a 10mm or a .44 mag but who needs to pack a 10mm or a 44 all the time. Happy camper here got a govt surplus Sig P-229 in almost new shape for $450 and was $114 for a new factory Sig .357 barrel for it too. Ammo does cost more than a 9mm but that's what reloading is for.

 

[Tallball]

As cheep as surplus .40 guns are going for now what's not to like there? Plus its almost dirt cheep to get a .357 barrel for the same gun and have both. Sure its not a 10mm or a .44 mag but who needs to pack a 10mm or a 44 all the time. Happy camper here got a govt surplus Sig P-229 in almost new shape for $450 and was $114 for a new factory Sig .357 barrel for it too. Ammo does cost more than a 9mm but that's what reloading is for.

Same. What's not to like? I got a Sig P229 and G22 for super cheap. Got 9mm barrels and mags for both of them. It's the equivalent of four nice handguns for barely more than the cost of a new Sig.

I've had zero problems with the conversion barrels.

Seems like a giant no-brainer, IMHO.

 

[someguy2800]

What OAL is that 40 load?

1.110"

That is the longest length that will function in my Glock 22 mags. When I had a Ruger SR40 I could load it out to like 1.170" and like half a grain more powder would get it to 1180 fps. Ruger has really long mags and chambers.

 

[mavracer]

1.110"

That is the longest length that will function in my Glock 22 mags. When I had a Ruger SR40 I could load it out to like 1.170" and like half a grain more powder would get it to 1180 fps. Ruger has really long mags and chambers.

Just curious, thanks. I don't hot rod my 40s (don't really hot rod much anymore) I do find it amusing that people get hung up on case length when it's really OAL that determines space powder has.

 

[someguy2800]

Not sure why but in the Northeast many shooters look down on the 40 S&W. There are a couple gun stores in MA that will openly mock you if you mention it. They even have a sign on their front door.

Its quite confusing to me because I am just old enough to remember when pretty much every law enforcement agency issued 40 S&W and it was generally accepted among the public, and then suddenly there was this reversal in course and it became the cartridge who's name we must never speak lest we be subject to the ridicule of those who watch more youtube than us. Its like a fanaticism among some.

 

[someguy2800]

Just curious, thanks. I don't hot rod my 40s (don't really hot rod much anymore) I do find it amusing that people get hung up on case length when it's really OAL that determines space powder has.

Just a point to note, this is not really a hot rod load, it is to the best of my knowledge using quickload and published load manuals a saami pressure load. It is certainly warm compared to most commercial 40 s&w ammo, but that is not saying much.