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40 s&w powder?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by ohihunter2014, May 18, 2019.

  1. vaalpens

    vaalpens Member

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    I also try and keep the cost down for 40S&W, so I mostly load pulled jacketed bullets. Lately I have been using W244 and 180gr pulled jacketed bullets which works out to $6.29 per 50.
     
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  2. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    I don't load .40 but some thoughts,

    I would think if you backed off from MAX just a bit the feel would be very close (not light or medium but under max)
    and give you some wiggle room safety wise.
    But I don't know about mixed brass in .40 since I don't load .40 and .40 does have a rep (maybe or maybe not deserved) for kabooms.
    Makes me wonder if there are neck tension issues with .40 brass resulting in bullet setback causing them.
    (or if it's just double charges or something else going on)
    Not attempting to point a finger at .40 for kabooms, anything will if you don't load it right.

    In 9mm using a full size all steel 1911 I can reliably feel about 30-40fps.

    .40 loaders
    Maybe something on the slow side of the .40 power range and back off from MAX a little??
    Looks like a mid range charge of Longshot in .40 would give pretty good vels.
    Longshot Start 6.5gr 1009 FPS 25K PSI Max 8.0 1159 FPS 32.3K PSI
    Looking at Hodgdons data (which real life results may or may not work out to give listed vels) Longshot is a good 100 FPS faster than the other things Hodgdon lists with a 180
    If the numbers work out in real life it looks like you could get 1050-1075 and still be midrange with Longshot, maybe get 1100 and still be a couple 1/10s below max??
    Of course Longshot is loud and flashy and not something I would normally use in 9mm, but it does some things well, this use might be one of those things.
     
  3. ray15

    ray15 Member

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    Longshot is great for pushing 180s to 1150fps, but not so great for lesser loads. A near-max load of BE86 or CFE Pistol generally works out better than a mid-range Longshot load.
     
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  4. Steve in NC

    Steve in NC Member

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    bds,
    Have you used BE-86 in 9mm at all? if so, what was your impression on accuracy/power results for 9mm also? The reason I asked is that I developed WSF loads for my 40's years ago and developed a load that has been my stable reload for years and no issues with mixed brass and happy with the accuracy. When I had issues with joints and hands I switched to 9mm and found a decent load in 9mm with WSF also and have a good load worked out and could use the same 8# container of powder during lean years. But when we shoot prone at 25yds or further back, I start missing the steel just left or just right but I don't adjust my hold and eventually I hear the dig. I just don't get the feeling the WSF gives great accuracy in my 9mm. I can put my factory GD carry ammo in my 9mm and ding the head on the steel with ease it seems.

    So from a reloading perspective I like to use 1 powder for 9 and 40 if at all possible, do you think BE-86 would be a step in the right direction for 9mm and 40?

    ohihunter2014,
    Not trying to hijack your thread. bds, if you want to take this offline 1 on 1 that is fine so I don't break any board etiquette rules.
     
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  5. ray15

    ray15 Member

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    I think this thread had run its course in terms of the OP's original interest.

    Not to speak for bds, but BE86 works great in 9mm, 40SW, 38special, medium 357magnum, and 357 Sig. That's just the stuff I've tried - I'm sure it works great in many other handgun applications. It's really reliable for me in near max to max loads, and it meters oh so well.

    Hodgdon CFE Pistol is a similar powder in performance and application. I started with it but found I like BE86 a bit better and feel it more versatile. Both are excellent in 9 and 40.

    The member Dudedog favors WSF in 9mm, he might have some input on your existing load.
     
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  6. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    +1.

    BE-86 has shattered all my previous reference 9mm and 40S&W loads with different powders except WST for 9mm. With burn rate between Unique and Power Pistol, it is flexible like WSF to produce accuracy down to mid-range load data.

    Here's my WST compared to BE-86 for 9mm (After seeing the flyer on the left, I shot again and hole appeared next to it. So I stopped)

    [​IMG]

    And BE-86 for 40S&W (Notice longer than SAAMI max OAL of 1.135")

    [​IMG]

    The accuracy of BE-86 was questioned by shooter in the next lane. He stopped shooting when he saw the groups and asked me what I was shooting. I told him a factory stock Gen3 Glock 22 and BE-86 using a thick plated bullet. He was surprised and said he would not have believed the groups if he had not seen them with his eyes.

    Some on THR also raised some suspicion so I arranged for another THR member to witness my next range session. While this 5 shot group was the smallest 25 yard group I have ever shot, it was done live witnessed by Dudedog while resting my hands on top of a small ice chest - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ick-plated-bullets.761471/page-4#post-9646469

    Dudedog also talked to range staff who witnessed my previous 25 yard groups listed on this post - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ts-and-discussions.778197/page-6#post-9924922

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
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  7. Steve in NC

    Steve in NC Member

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    looks like I have some work to do before I make my next big powder purchase. Thanks gentleman.
     
  8. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    FYI, if I were to load for 9mm and 40S&W, I would use 2 powders:
    • Sport Pistol or IMR Target for 9mm
    • BE-86 for 40S&W
     
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  9. ohihunter2014

    ohihunter2014 Member

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    Highjack away my friend! That’s what this place is for! People helping people.
     
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  10. vaalpens

    vaalpens Member

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    40S&W is not that difficult to load for. A good starting powder will be BE-86 as bds indicated, but you need to be willing to work up the load from min to max. BE-86 will give you good accuracy on the low end, but also on the higher end. BE-86 worked well for me in both 180gr and 165gr.

    Longshot is another good powder for 40S&W, but you need to be will to work it up to the higher range. I have had excellent accuracy with a 155gr bullet using Longshot.

    bds posted a 6.1 load using BE-86 with an 180gr bullet. My accurate BE-86 load was the following 6.0gr load. BE-86 will be a good powder to start with:

    Load-964-05_15yd.png
    40SW, P229, 3.9"
    Case: Federal
    COL: 1.125"
    Pulled, 180gr, FMJRNFP, BE86, 6gr, GINEXSP
    Average: 920
    ES: 24
    SD: 10.5
    Force: 338
    PF: 165
    Velocities: 934, 925, 910, 910, 925
    Grouping @ 15yd: 0.589"
    Test Date: 11/12/2017
     
  11. lordpaxman

    lordpaxman Member

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    When I first did that google for "best powder for .40"... I failed to realize the intended use was implied and rarely shared. Expanding the search to "9mm .40 and .45" made it even worse. The predominate answer was Titegroup so I was off and running! I've started to factor in 1)Platform, 2)Intended use and 3)Bullet weight and style.

    For .40 light loads in my P239 I prefer a plated 180 with WST or N320 but these don't make major. For a heavier factory/SD/Major load, with 180 jacketed, WSF, N340 or CFE Pistol work really well. I did a lot of work with Titegroup in .40 but prefer WST for the light loads.
    I'll break my hiatus with .40 since I just picked up all the LE brass (nickle plated!) and try out the Target/SP/244 powders. I do have 231 data that I can contrast with 244 when I chrono that.
    In my 9mm testing 244 had a higher velocity than 231 for an equivalent charge weight.
     
  12. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    WSF works well for me in 9mm it is my goto powder there.

    As far as the misses at 25 yards and your WSF load not shooting as well as Factory GDHP.
    It could be the WSF in 9mm or it could be the bullet you were using.
    Only way to know for sure would be to try a different powder with the same bullet and see if it helps in 9mm.

    I have had good results in 9mm with BE86 and CFE-P so either of those might be good to try, but I don't know how they are in .40.
    Other posters have had good results with BE86 in .40
     
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  13. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Keep in mind, Google search results may return posts that pre-date the release of BE-86 in 2014.

    Also, Google search may return many match shooting forum (Like Brian Enos) results for minor power factor 40S&W loads and Titegroup is a popular match pistol powder.

    IMO, W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol and faster burn rate powders are good for loading lighter 40S&W target loads and slower burn rate than Unique/Universal/BE-86/Power Pistol/WSF at good for loading higher velocity full power loads.
     
  14. vaalpens

    vaalpens Member

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    You can add W244 to the faster burn rate powders. I like W244 since it seems to give me a bit more flexibility when it comes to loading for cartridges that prefer a slower burn rate powder like 40S&W and 357SIG. I can load both with W244 without having to load it at the max. This is one of my W244 loads I tested. I had one flyer and I think it was me, not the load:


    [​IMG]
    40SW, P229, 3.9"
    Case: RP
    COL: 1.125"
    RMRPulled, 180gr, FMJRNFP, W244, 4.8gr, CCI500
    Average: 869
    ES: 35
    SD: 13
    Force: 302
    PF: 156
    Velocities: 869, 877, 850, 868, 885
    Grouping @ 15yd: 0.89"
    Test Date: 05/05/2019
     
  15. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Yes, my hopeful Winchester's replacement for W231/HP-38.

    I came late to the W244 party but decided to hold off load development until the prototype machine rest was completed.
     
  16. lordpaxman

    lordpaxman Member

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    Quite right! The Enos forums were ablaze with Titegroup and if you look at the match surveys from USPSA or IDPA, there’s a predominate Titegroup/N320 usage. Except, of course for the compensator crowd. It’s a great powder but I realized there were safer options. My SP is running low so I’m ordering more, and, will put BE86 on the order, reluctantly... Gads, another round of load data. I find 244 meters better in my LNL than Target, but will try both in .40 when I’m done with the 9’s.
     
  17. Lennyjoe

    Lennyjoe Member

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    When powder was pretty scarce during the Obama era, I had few choices for powder and found a good supply of Longshot still available so I tried it under 180’s FMJ’s and had such good success with it that I’ve just stuck with that powder. It’s still pretty cheap so I keep pressing on with that load.
     
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  18. Hondo 60
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    Hondo 60 Member

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    How many people post on thr????
    That's about how many answers you'll get.

    My personal fave is TiteGroup.

    Very economical (you use only approximately 5 gr or less)
    Not position sensitive
    Available - atleast in my area

    The downer is that it's easy to miss a dbl or even triple charge - so plz be careful
     
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