.41 Mag Association

[Charlie98]

Personally, the Cast Performance WFN 250grn bullet would be my choice, over a good charge of H110. Looking at my notes I don't seem to have any chrono data for that combo... I'll have to fix that.
.

As a follow up to that post...

I shot some of those over the chrono a few weeks ago, and then for accuracy. I'd forgotten how accurate they are.

The Cast Performance 250grn FN/GC, over 18grn W296 gave 1100fps out of my 4" Smith, 1280fps out of my 6" Dan Wesson, and 1550fps out of my 20" Marlin... but was the absolute accuracy winner that day in the .41's.

The Montana 240 FN/GC's I was testing gave excellent accuracy out of the 1894 over 19.5grn IMR4227... not so much in the pistols, which doesn't surprise me. That same load shot high left in the 4" Smith, something it has never done. Oddly enough, the same bullet over 2400... the pistol seemed to like well enough, but the 1894 didn't.

Those silly .41's...

 

[RJM52]

I've got three boxes of those 250s left from a trade I made with Kelly when he owned CBC...

20.0 grains of H110 runs them 1309 from a 4.25" FA97...and is a a very uplifting experience when touched off.... They are now being saved for the Marlins or one of the heavier SA guns...

 

[NeroM]

Liked the 255 CPC bullet better, it is no longer available- so getting use to the 250 gr.
Like it with 13.5 gr 2400, yielding approx 1130 fps from a 6" FA83.
Have gone to 15 gr 2400, above load has been adequate for my targets.
Was very optimistic about 240 gr Montana bullet, just have not hit on an optimal
Loading for this bullet.

 

[RJM52]

That was a great bullet... I have a couple of boxes of loaded ammo left with that bullet.

If you cast your own the Accurate Molds 41-250L is very close.

 

[NeroM]

I too have a box or two of the 255 CPC loaded for bear and large game.
Still working up the 250 gr for deer, though around 14 gr of 2400 gives reasonable accuracy
And sights similar to the 255 load.

 

[Charlie98]

If you are willing to try it, instead of 2400... give H110/W296 a try. I've never found 2400 to be all that accurate in anything I've ever tried it in, which, in my case, means the .41 or .45 Colt. As you say, I've found 'reasonable' accuracy, but every time I load the same bullet under H110, the accuracy improves.

I still have high hopes for the Montana 240grn bullet, I just need to find it's happy place. I made the mistake of trying 2400 instead of H110 this last go-round.

 

[black mamba]

For the heavies I found the GT 240 SWC with 8.7 gr of Herco and the CCI-300 primer to be very accurate at about 1050 fps in my 4-5/8" Blackhawk.

 

[NeroM]

Charlie98
H110/W296 do offer improved performance, however at a higher velocity than I need or want. With 2400 I get more consistent loads in my desired velocity (1150-1200) than with some other "magnum" powders. Plus I have a good supply of 2400!

 

[Charlie98]

Charlie98
H110/W296 do offer improved performance, however at a higher velocity than I need or want. With 2400 I get more consistent loads in my desired velocity (1150-1200) than with some other "magnum" powders. Plus I have a good supply of 2400!

Yea, same-same with me. I don't use H110 a whole lot because I simply don't need the velocity it offers, and you can't reduce. I really want to like 2400, but... for me, anyway... it offers nothing more than IMR4227, other than a little extra velocity. Now I have to find a way to burn up 2+ #'s of the stuff...

 

[DudeFromSweden]

I would sure lile to join the .41mag association, preferably getting a S&W m57.

Trouble is, the only one I've ever handled was at a gunstore, about a year back. The gun was, for me, greatly overpriced at about 900usd for a 6 inch m57 where the first 1,5-2 inches of the bore had a slight rusted and pitted appearance. It might not do anything to degrade the accuracy, or maybe it would, I will most likely never know, because the store in question could not arrange a way for me to test fire the revolver.

The m57 seems to be an exceedingly rare sight around my parts, and the gun in the store is still for sale at the same price, they seem contempt with having it collecting dust there sadly.

The finish was nice, with just a few slightly polished areas likely from limited range use by the looks of it, and from what the store salesman said.

And naturally I can't seem to stop thinking about it! I have a excellent gunsmith nearby that could rebarrel or install a barrel liner should it be necessary, but money and other guns to feed with ammo too and all that same old same old...

Price of the revolver aside, what would the associations biased suggestion be?

 

[WisBorn]

I would sure lile to join the .41mag association, preferably getting a S&W m57.

Trouble is, the only one I've ever handled was at a gunstore, about a year back. The gun was, for me, greatly overpriced at about 900usd for a 6 inch m57 where the first 1,5-2 inches of the bore had a slight rusted and pitted appearance. It might not do anything to degrade the accuracy, or maybe it would, I will most likely never know, because the store in question could not arrange a way for me to test fire the revolver.

The m57 seems to be an exceedingly rare sight around my parts, and the gun in the store is still for sale at the same price, they seem contempt with having it collecting dust there sadly.

The finish was nice, with just a few slightly polished areas likely from limited range use by the looks of it, and from what the store salesman said.

And naturally I can't seem to stop thinking about it! I have a excellent gunsmith nearby that could rebarrel or install a barrel liner should it be necessary, but money and other guns to feed with ammo too and all that same old same old...

Price of the revolver aside, what would the associations biased suggestion be?

If you don't have a 41 mag just try one.
Ruger Blackhawk is great. The 657 is real nice. Charter Arms made a nice snubby. Taurus made a couple of models. I'm sure that I'm missing some.

The appeal is a cartridge that is between the 357 & 44 mags that performs closer to the 44. Has more energy than the 10mm but similar bullet diameter.

I'll worn you ahead of time. You're going to like it

 

[Dudemeister]

To expand on what WisBorn said, the reason the .41 Magnum is closer to the .44 Magnum than the .357, is because the .41 Magnum is truly a .410" diameter bullet, whereas the .44 is actually .429". More often than not, the .41 Magnum bullet energy at the muzzle is the same or just under that of the .44 magnum.

 

[sisyphus]

New member here. Just picked it up from my FFL and am in love. Can't wait to shoot it.

 

[RJM52]

Dude... Has the gun been cleaned? If not ask if it could be and maybe the pitting won't be as bad as it currently looks... If the pits are no very deep it should not effect accuracy to any noticeable degree.

Several years ago I picked up a 1964 Model 57 that had a rusty end of the barrel inside and out. Fortunately I have a factory trained Smith smith an hour away. He was able to turn the gun into a factory looking 5" right down to the barrel crown and front sight...






Bob

 

[DudeFromSweden]

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions guys!
The gun was cleaned, years ago when the gunstore acquired it, and it isn't shot since, this was evident from the comparatively very clean look of the remainder of the bore.

I really like the idea of the .41mag and a big part of that is the slight obscurity of the round, and as WisBorn and Dudemeister said, that it's close to a 44mag. The obscurity seems to work against me in this case though, as I have not seen anyone in Sweden shooting a .41mag. Lots of 44mag, but trying out a 41 without first having to buy one myself, I'll have to dig around to be able to make that happen.

The 41mag have not gathered much popularity here it seems. I sure would love to try it out though and I'll do a bit of digging and report back with my findings.

If the gunstore could have arranged to have the gun test fired for accuracy, and it would turn out that there is in fact no problem with the bore, I'm quite sure I would own it already.

I load my own ammo for 38/357 and 45auto, and owning a 41 would be the the perfect incentive for me to start casting bullets aswell. For the 38 and 45 I use almost exclusively plated or coated store bought bullets with great results and they aren't very expensive, so I might need a swift .41 kick in the bottom to take up casting aswell!

Dudefromsweden

That thing is beautiful RJM52!

 

[Charlie98]

There are certain features that make some N-frames more desirable than others... if it's a older 'pinned and recessed' N-frame, for example. $900 US isn't terribly out of line for a .41 in very good condition, I would be careful about one that has oddities like you describe. Yes, barrels can be replaced, but the current one just might need some good scrubbing or lapping. A rough bore, particularly near the forcing cone, can translate to a wildly leading bore (with cast bullets) and inaccuracy (with any bullet.)

I have a cosmetically challenged .41... a Smith model 58. It was obviously dropped on the pavement or bumped into a concrete wall or something at one time, it has significant scarring on the cylinder...



...but that doesn't detract too much from the fact it's a classy old Smith that still shoots well.

The current family picture... Dan Wesson 741, Smith 58, Smith 57. They are just home from an extended shooting session in the NV desert... so it's time for a cleaning.

 

[Dudemeister]

Here is mine, a 6" nickel plated Model 57, no dash, pinned barrel, recessed chambers. Sporting some fancy walnut grips.

When I got it it had a little bit of rust on the top edge of the frame on the right side and around the edge if the flute on the cylinder. There was also a bit of rust accumulation inside the barrel near the muzzle. The barrel rust came off with a little bit of scrubbing with a copper barrel brush and oil. The surface rust on the frame came off using oil and the copper penny method.

The gun shoots pretty much on point. let's just say it's a lot more accurate than I am.

On the gun you're looking at, ask them if they'll let you pass a copper barrel brush with oil through it a couple of times, then shine a light inside and see if it came off. It may just be some surface rusting, which won't affect accuracy at all. These things are built like tanks.

 

[DudeFromSweden]

Thanks Charlie98 and Dudemeister. Interesting thoughts about where in the bore the fouling is located, as instinctively I would have assumed the same rough spot near the muzzle would pose more problems, but reading what you wrote it does make perfect sense.

It is indeed a no dash pinned and recessed specimen.

The gun store is located far away enough from me that it's a days trip to get there and back, so we'll see when I get a chance to go there next, I really appreciate the insight and ideas you guys have put forth!

Also, I am not familiar with the copper penny method and would love to be enlightened.

Dudefromsweden

 

[Dudemeister]

Also, I am not familiar with the copper penny method and would love to be enlightened.
Dudefromsweden

Rather than me writing down what I did, here is a video and a description of the "copper penny method". Because the rust area was fairly small in my case, the entire procedure took less than10 minutes. The guy in the video did an entire shogun this way, and it took about an hour. Check it out.

https://www.range365.com/penny-method-removing-gun-rust/

 

[Dudemeister]

It is indeed a no dash pinned and recessed specimen.
Dudefromsweden

These are pretty rare, and are quickly becoming collectable. If the serial number starts with S instead of N, then it's an even earlier model so it's more desirable.

If the rusting is not all that objectionable, I would give it some serious consideration.

 

[DudeFromSweden]

Thank you Dudemeister for the link! Good stuff!

I'll have to email them and ask about the serial number, I'll get back to you on that.

I started writing a long post, also describing my plans for a .41mag were I to get one, writing on my phone, I must have clicked something and everything disappeared so I'll do the short version for now because that was disheartening:

I intend to shoot "long" range bullseye-like competition, so the rusting would be highly objectionable if it affects accuracy, or not at all if it indeed does not affect the accuracy.

Stupid phone!

Dudefromsweden

 

[bangswitch]

DudefromSweden, welcome !

M57 was a sort of 'latecomer' to S&W's lineup; production started in 1964, and the no-dash series lasted until 1982, a fairly long run without a series change. The "S" serial number prefix ended in 1969, and was replaced by a "N", so that's one way to determine an approximate age of a no-dash gun (1964-69, or 1970-1982). When the dash-1 started in 1982, it eliminated the pinned barrel and recessed cylinders, which are desirable in collector terms. If it is nickel plated, it is earlier than 1986, although it is still a dash-1. If it has a 4" barrel, it is earlier than 1992, and would be a dash-3 or earlier series. The M57 was discontinued with the dash-4 in 1993, and reintroduced in 2019 as a dash-5. All M57's had target trigger, target hammer and target stocks.

My M57 no-dash, with "S" prefix SN, from 1968; It had the accessory rail when I got it. Looks okay, but I'd never have put it on there myself.

 

[DudeFromSweden]

Thank you bangswitch, for the welcome and the great info!

I'm currently waiting for a reply from the gunstore regarding the serial number prefix, and when I get that reply I'll try and see if they'll consider dropping the price a bit now that it's been collecting more dust. But I might just come to a point where I buy it regardless and deal with the bore issue/non issue.

That's a nice looking gun you have there! I agree about the rail though, it's ok but not great looking. Very, very nice looking grips though!

Dudefromsweden

 

[bangswitch]

That's a nice looking gun you have there! I agree about the rail though, it's ok but not great looking. Very, very nice looking grips though!
Dudefromsweden

The grips are made by Altamont. reasonably priced, many styles available, comfortable, and they are a very precise fit.

I took this revolver to a local gunsmith this morning to see how difficult it would be to remove the vented rib add-on. He said it was silver soldered i n place and could be removed with difficulty, but the gun would most likely require re-bluing afterwards. I'll live with them in that case. They're not bad, don't interfere with the sight picture or holstering the gun. I guess the former owner wanted it to look like a Colt Python.

 

[DudeFromSweden]

Sweet thank you!

Yeah, definately not worth it to risk having to reblue. IMO, I'll rather have an older revolver with honest wear on the bluing, than a pristine reblued one. Of course with enough use a rebluing may be in order to protect it, but for me it would have to go pretty far for me to consider it. If I were to buy a brand new I'd want it perfect of course, so I can credit all wear to my own use of it!