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.410 ammo selection... and full choke?

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by David4516, Apr 19, 2011.

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  1. David4516

    David4516 Member

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    I have a question, but first here is the back-story:

    My wife and I recently got our tax return, and we decided it was time for her to get a shotgun of her own (she doesn't like my Remington 870 20ga). We went down to the local gun shop and ordered a Mossberg 500 youth model in .410, with wood stock and fixed full choke.

    It should arrive sometime in the next few days. We're looking forward to trying it. I also ordered some ammo to go with the gun, and this leads to my question(s).

    Intended use for this will be for plinking at pop-cans and what-not, and possibly home defense. With HD in mind, I decided to order some of these:

    http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=145184

    "Centurion 2.5 inch shells, Loaded with three (3) 0.400" lead balls, a perfectly matched plastic wad and a low recoil powder"

    Sounded great at the time, only $9.00 per box of 25 rounds, low recoil, and big enough shot to actually have a effect on an intruder. But now that I think about it more. will a .40 caliber ball be safe to shoot in a .410 shotgun with a full choke? I believe that this is larger than 000 buck?

    I have 2 other related questions:

    #1: Does anyone sell a replacement barrel for this shotgun with a cylinder bore /no choke?

    #2: I see alot of shells designed for the Tarus Judge. Will these be safe and/or effective in a full sized shotgun? In particular I am curious about these:

    http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=533166

    4 pellets of 000 buck, and judging by the picture they look copper plated. I hear that copper plate is a plus in .410 because plain lead buckshot will "flatten" when fired (due to shot being stacked one atop another).

    Will this work in a mossberg 500?

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. T Slothrop

    T Slothrop Member

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    Personally I prefer these or these in my Mossberg .410 for home defense simply because of the greater number of pellets. I make no apologies for using a .410 because a) it is the only shotgun my Significant Other will practice with and b) due to some physical problems of my own 12 and 20 gauge recoil is starting to hurt too much.

    I sure wouldn't stand in front of a .410 loaded with buckshot or slugs.
     
  3. hardluk1

    hardluk1 member

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    You have to check out these.
    D. Duplexs They offer a 2 1/2" DUPO7 that has a 110gr slug moveing at 167ofps and will expand to 1 inch then frags in to 7 peices to cut diffent wound channels.

    For larger bore shooting guns they have 3 different loads that react differently to tissue when hit. Interesting loads.
     
  4. NCsmitty

    NCsmitty Member

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    You are right to question the .400 ball plus wad in the full choke, although I see no warning in the ad at the Midway site. That would be a tight squeeze.

    I load a similar load using three .380 balls that I cast and shoot in my single barrel Pardner with no plastic wad, but I have cut the choke out by shortening the barrel. I chronographed the load at 1180FPS and it will keep all 3 balls within 12" at 50yds.

    If you're going to shoot a lot, a Mec reloader will pay for itself in a short time and allow a lot more shooting fun. They are very simple to use.



    NCsmitty
     
  5. SHR970

    SHR970 Member

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    If you can't find a barrel, take it to a gunsmith and have them ream the choke out to either Cyl. or Skeet. This is what I had done to my O/U that was Mod. Full when I bought it.

    Short of a special purpose 410, the only listings I see for Mossberg barrels is either Mod. or Full on their guns. They don't even list a 410 aftermarket / replacement barrel. You could try contacting them and see if they have an off list replacement barrel that you could buy.

    I could never understand why the makers insist on full choke on a 410. They seem to be trying to make a 50 yard gun out of a 25 yard gun.
     
  6. chas08

    chas08 Member

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    I
    To keep the few pellets you have working for you closer together for better pattern density. It's also my prefered choke in a .410 and makes it a sevicable 25-35 yard Dove gun. As to the OP's question most .410's that I have owned (4) or crossed trails with, have been full choked. I wouldn't think a responsible ammo manufacturer would sell a dangerous loading without a truckload of warnings. Besides lead is soft and will swage through a choke. It may not pattern worth a hoot but I doubt it to be dangerous.
     
  7. 788Ham

    788Ham Member

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    And no, they won't flatten out, one on top of the other. The #4 buck will be a very good shot shell also! :evil:
     
  8. David4516

    David4516 Member

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    Tested the .400 cal shot shells by cutting one open and measuring the shot. The pellet was actually closer to .39 cal, a good sign.

    I tried it in a .410 barrel with a modified choke, and it rolled right past the choke without getting stuck. Also a good sign.

    I'm picking up the Mossberg tonight, will test them in it's barrel and see what happens...
     
  9. David4516

    David4516 Member

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    Picked up the shotgun last night, and have some good news, and some bad news.

    The good news: those .40 caliber pellets should be just fine in this gun. Turns out that it's actually a modified choke, not a full. Looking forward to testing them, will post the results here.

    The bad news: The youth size is actually a little too small for my wife. We thought it would be perfect since the standard size was too big. Wish there were a "medium" option LOL. Does anyone know if you can remove the youth stock (model 505) and add a standard size stock (model 500)? Or are they not compatable?

    I was thinking that If I could put the larger size stock on the smaller gun, it might be just right. And if need be, I could probably just take a saw and cut an inch off of the full sized stock to get that "medium" size I'm looking for...
     
  10. RaceM

    RaceM Member

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    If the stock isn't WAY short can you just add a slip-on pad over the original? That'd give you an additional inch of pull.
     
  11. SHR970

    SHR970 Member

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    Does your 505 have a 12" LOP stock? If so, you need the model 500 Bantaam stock which is 13". You can order a synthetic one directly from Mossberg for a little over $50.
     
  12. FLNT4EVR

    FLNT4EVR Member

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    Fear not ! Buy the Centurians and blast Away. Centurian realy puts out some decent ammo. I have tried , and use , their 12ga buck and ball ammo and it performs as advertized and then some. Absolutely no problems.
     
  13. David4516

    David4516 Member

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  14. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    Things to know/remember about the .410:

    1. The chokes are not regulated/tested at 40yds like the larger shotguns. They are set/tested for 25yds. Hence a .410 full choke isn't as tight as a larger shotguns choke. Most get the full choke as it maximizes the effectiveness of the small shot load. The only place where you might want a more open choke is shooting skeet.

    2. The steel in the barrel is much harder than the lead shot. It will "squeeze" the shot down if the choke is too tight. However, as you observed, the shot is actually slightly smaller than advertised. No problem, however. I've actually loaded my own .410 "solids" or slugs by loading .40S&W cast bullet (.401") and got decent performance at ~50'.

    BTW: The shot dosen't "flatten out" from the firing. If that was the case, all shotguns would "flatten" the shot and you'd never get a decent pattern...... It's amazing at the "nonsense" that exists about ammunition.... Yes, some with have "flat spots" on the pellets from barrel contact, but thats not as significant as it's been made out to be. Remember, even cast balls for muzzle loaders have a flat-spot from the sprue cut off. I've shot 1-hole groups with a muzzle loader at 50yds using cast round balls. They even had grooves cut on the side by the rifleing, too !!!! Imagine that! they were even egg shaped by being 'squoze' through the rifleing.......

    3. The .410 is the most expensive shotshell size to buy, but the cheapest to reload. It is also very, very easy to reload for.

    I disregarded the .410 for many years. I finally purchased one of the Yildiz O/U shotguns as sold by Academy Sports in spring of '10. It is now my favorite shotgun, and I shoot it almost to the exclusion of all my other shotguns. I find it to be effective at reasonable ranges with appropriate ammo. It is far, far more effective on the skeet range than I imagined. The fit/finish and features on this shotgun are far better than the ~500.00 price tag would lead you to believe. A friend who has 3 Browning Citori .410's saw/handled mine and went and bought himself a Yildiz. I asked why? He said he didn't like leaving his Brownings by the back door. He said the Yildiz is too good to have to leave his Browning out of the safe..........

    A deer or turkey gun it isn't. But for garden pests or small game hunting, I consider it the best thing I've ever used......Almost non-existant recoil, mild muzzle blast, and effective beyond imagination for a former 12/20ga
    shooter.

    Heck, I'm even loading .45Colt "shot" loads and using them to irradicate the Carpenter bee's around the house...... 5gr of Bullseye and cardboard wads punched with my Lee bullet sizer dies and about 0.4oz of #9 bird shot covered by a crimped over cardboard wad...... I've taken over 50 bumble bees this spring! Think "C-B caps" for a shotgun.......
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2011
  15. David4516

    David4516 Member

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    GooseGestapo,

    I was concerned about flattening of pellets based on this:

    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41_2.htm

    Looking at the pictures, those pellets are FLAT. Not just flat on one side. They look like watch batteries.

    Don't you mean C-Bee caps? LOL

    I've never thought about using a firearm on an insect, but it sounds like fun. I did however kill a very large spider once with a BB gun...
     
  16. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    Before you sour on the 12" stock for the Lady: +1 on the slip on pad for field workm you are gonna need a size small or extra small BTW. For HD work. especially inside (as in HOME defense) she/you will be FAR better off with that 12" LOP ! You aren't shooting birds here where the 14" pull might be better. You are turning corners and bringing the gun up to eye LEVEL from a low ready and that 12" pull is about right for that even for 6 footers!
     
  17. David4516

    David4516 Member

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    Ok finally have an update, sorry for the long wait.

    Took the Model 505 out and test it and the ammo a few weeks back. Had some issues :(

    We tried 3 different brands of shell (Remington, Winchester, and Centurian), and all had multiple failures to feed and extract. Most common problem was that upon "pumping", instead of the round going into the chamber, it would drop out the bottom of the action and land on the ground.

    When we did get a round to actually chamber, it would fire OK, but then the shell wouldn't easily extract. It took a lot of muscle to work the action, and then half the time the empty shell would stay in the chamber.

    My wife and I both enjoyed shooting it though, it was fun and more accurate than we expected (think having the 2nd bead sight helps). Just wish it was more reliable.

    Is this a common issue with the 505? Or are we just doing something wrong? I'm new to Mossberg shotguns (all previous shotgun experiance has been with either Remginton 870s or NEF single shots).
     
  18. T Bran

    T Bran Member

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    David im really surprised that you are having problems but I doubt the problem is you they are not that different than an 870 as far as basic functions go. I was about to pick one up at wallyworld to save wear and tear on my 410 sxs. Hope that you keep us posted on your progress I think that your gun might have something sticking. May be a good idea to tear it down clean and oil. You should be able to function test for the feed issue with out going to the range but be very careful when testing a malfunction with live ammo. + 1 on the reloading saves me a bundle and I shoot more = win-win.
    Good Luck
    T
     
  19. David4516

    David4516 Member

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    T Bran,

    Thats what I thought too. Maybe just need to take it apart and give it a good cleaning / oiling?

    I'm considering buying some snap-caps for .410 to test in it. Don't feel good about doing this in my house with the live ammo.

    I'm hoping I can figure this out, like I said before we did enjoy shooting it and if we can get it running 100% I can see this shotgun going with us to the range frequently.

    Heck, our son might enjoy it in a few years (he's only 17 months old at the moment).
     
  20. Jason_W

    Jason_W Member

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    I read the ATF just nixed their importation. Apparently, for reasons that make no sense to anyone with a few brain cells to rub together, they're being classified as armor piercing HG ammo.
     
  21. Sky

    Sky Member

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    I have a couple of 12s but only like to shoot one of them ( the MKA 1919 ) versus the Mossberg 88 which I hate due to recoil with magnum slugs or 00.

    Never thought much about a 410; it was always a kids gun or young ladies gun where I grew up or maybe just not macho enough? I always liked a 16 gage best but that was just me.

    Well I came accross a Saiga 410 at a good price and someone had said the 410 slug was the same as a 357 (??) so I loaded her up with goldenbear slugs. I have not had that much fun with a shotgun, ever. It never failed to feed or fire and the slugs have proven more accurate than I would have believed possible. I have shot only 35 rounds with this weapon because it is relatively new and I have been doing other things lately but I do want to take it back out and sight it in.

    If I remember it was shooting a little over 4 or 5 MOA at 50 yards with all shots 5 inches high and about 6" right when I tried it out on a target (right after I got it) but the groups were consistant. Been meaning to adjust the sights but have not had the time or messed with the shotgun in a couple of months.

    I looked at the 00 shot in 410 but 3 or 5 BBs did not do as much for me as the slug in the same caliber. If someone wants or needs a fun hard hitting low recoil weapons then they could do much worse than the 410 IMO.

    P.S. I think it was 50 yards or close to it?
     
  22. David4516

    David4516 Member

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    I haven't given slugs much consideration. Figured that for the HD role that the buckshot loads would work better? Maybe be less likely to punch through walls and end up hitting the neighbors house?

    Is there any data regarding the effectiveness of buckshot vs slugs for defense purposes?

    Slugs could be interesting for the range/plinking if nothing else. Do you guys have any recomendations? Will one brand/type work better than another in a shotgun that has a choke?
     
  23. Mike1234567

    Mike1234567 member

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    WHAT?? DARN IT!!! (being nicey-nicey) I want those but have been waiting for the price to drop. Just one more reason to HATE the BATFE!!
     
  24. leftyz

    leftyz Member

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    I recently started a very similar thread, I have a Mossberg 500E .410 pump. I went to Wally World and looked at their selection, I noticed that the .410 slugs were lighter as far as how much lead is being fired. I'll stick to either the 000 buckshot or the 3" #4 shot, which really pack a punch.

    I haven't tried shooting the #000 2.5" shells I bought yet so I can't comment on the FTF FTE issues, but with all other ammo I have tried I have had zero issues.
     
  25. Jason_W

    Jason_W Member

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    I know. I was interested in trying them as well. I've fired some of the 12 ga versions into gel blocks and the results are impressive.
     
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