410 Shotgun Slug and Shot Reloads

[Brent2172]

I am looking for information on reloading 410 shotgun shells with a single slug or single round ball as well as pellet loads.
Does anyone have any information including powder types and loads as well as information on suitable wad types etc ?
I have an old ( 1930's) hand tool for rolling the loaded case mouth rim over and I also have an equally old primer seating tool - both marked 410.
My 410 is a double barrel hammer gun ( made by Leige of Belgium with 28 inch barrels) - the gun takes 2 inch and 2 and a half inch shells but not 3 inch. The gun is also probably a 1930's manufacture and I got the reloading tools as well as an assortment of old brass cases and live ammo as well as fibre /cardboard cases with the gun about 10 years ago.
So far I have been firing factory shells but thought I might experiment with some reloads using my fired plastic cases.
Any information or words of advice is appreciated.
Brent2172

 

[243winxb]

We need to know make of fired plastic cases. 2 1/2" ? Sorry, no recipes for slug or ball in my old books. Shot loads you can finded here. http://data.hodgdon.com/shotshell_load.asp General shotgun info under forums here. http://www.shotgunworld.com/ And for making your own load data, try here. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?f=36 Good Luck.

 

[NCsmitty]

Welcome to THR, Brent2172.

I know that I'm a little reluctant to offer my defensive load with three .380 balls stacked over a powder wad. I'll just say that I use Win 209 primers and H110 powder, and I shoot them through a single barrel Pardner with shortened barrel and no choke. They are on the high side of the pressure gradient.
Your shotgun is an older model and I'm not sure how it is constructed. It may be one of the delicate, thin wall tube and chamber versions that Belgium produced over the years. I would keep pressure on the lower side.
Go to www.hodgdon.com and select shotshell under reload data and check out the 1/2oz loads.


NCsmitty

 

[Brent2172]

Hi Guys - thank you for your replies :-
243winxb - thank you for the suggested websites - I will check those out. The ammo I currently use in this gun is mainly "ELEY " brand 2" and 2 1/2" shells with No. 6 shot - the 2" take 5/16 oz of No. 6 shot and the 2 1/2" take 7/16 oz of No.6 shot. I also have some "Winchester" 2 1/2" which hold 1/2 oz of No. 4 shot. All cases are smooth plastic ( not ribbed ). These are the cases I will reload.
NCsmitty - thank you for the welcome to THR and the information. Yes, my gun appears fairly thin walled - I used to have a double 410 hammerless sxs Boito ( lost it in a house fire ) and it was of much heavier construction - I used to fire 3" shells in that one. I don't think I will try 3 x .38 projectiles in one case as I think this may put the pressure up as you have suggested. I did see on a website the use of a single round .375 cal ball - this it was suggested would fit through any 410 barrel whether choked or not but I need a suitable wad/ball carrier to form a gas seal . I will also check the Hogdon site for data and more information.
Thank you
Brent2172

 

[Remo-99]

ADI lists a charge of 14.0grs AR2205 for 1/2oz(14gram) number 3 to number 12 shot, in winchester AA hulls and WWAA41 wads, either a WIN209 or CCI209M primer. 1200fps @ 10500psi.

http://www.adi-limited.com/handloaders-guide/index.asp

 

[NCsmitty]

Here's a combo that will work for you. I'm not sure if the wads can be bought separately or not.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=177832


NCsmitty

 

[Brent2172]

Thank you for the replies.

Remo-99 - I will check the ADI site as suggested for shot loads. My gunshop should be able to get me some WWAA41 wads and appropriate primers. I have some shot and also have ADI AR2205 powder which I use to reload for my .310 Martini Cadet rifle. I plan to cut some overshot cards.
NCsmitty - I looked at the Midway site and that carrier/wad appears to be exactly what I need to shoot the round .375 lead ball. The Midway site states they won't sell to individuals internationally - they do have some international dealers but not in Australia.
I have printed off a copy of the photo of the carrier and ball and will take it to my gunshop to see if they can get something like this in for me.
I really only need to get a supply of the plastic carriers as the lead ball in
.375 - which I believe is the same as .36 cal used in blackpowder shooting - should be easy enough to source out.
thanks
Brent2172

 

[UnclePete]

A single round ball to fit in a 410 case only weighs about 45 grains, but you can get three in a 2.5 inch case. Curiously, that would be an illegal load in the UK.

A pre-WWII gun is the last thing I would use for cartridge experiments BTW.

 

[Brent2172]

Hi UnclePete,
Thank you for your reply.
I appreciate I could load in more than one lead ball but my idea was to use a single slug or ball. The Midway website NCsmitty referred me to has a single round lead ball of .375 inch weighing 93grains sitting on top of a plastic carrier/wad which would be inserted into the shell on top of the powder charge. Although the firearms legislation is strict here in each State of Australia I don't think there would be any legal problems with loading three lead balls into one shell it is just that I had not wanted to do that.

I also appreciate your advice re experimenting with loads using an older firearm - I reload for a number of my firearms and several of them are older than this shotgun. The oldest is an 1897 manufactured Lee Enfield No. 1 which was later on rebarrelled from .303 to .303/25 - with all my older firearms I either reload reduced or light loads so with the 410 I will take it easy and keep the loads light keeping in mind I am already currently firing factory ammunition in this gun.
thanks
Brent2172

 

[rcmodel]

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=0721641

rc

 

[Brent2172]

Hi rcmodel,

Thank you for that link - the Ballistic Products carrier/wad and ball looks to be the same item as Midway has for sale so I will try Ballistic Products if I can't find anything here in Australia.

thanks
Brent2172

 

[243winxb]

I also have some "Winchester" 2 1/2" which hold 1/2 oz

The old casing and the new HS have different wads and powder amount. The are marked in black ink with HS. IN fact the original new HS was changed, so make sure you have the correct wads to match the hulls. The New factory loaded HS i just tool apart has a clear plastic wad. The base of the wad is larger in diameter than the old AA. Click for larger photo

[/URL][/IMG]

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[Brent2172]

Hi 243winxb,

Thank you for this information - I have more Eley ammunition than Winchester in my 410 ammo stock and the Winchester I have is now a few years old. Of late I have been firing the Eley and therefore have more spent Eley shells than Winchester to reload. In fact until recently I have not been saving any of the spent shells.
I am away from home right now but will later check the Winchester fired cases and ammo I have as I do not think they are marked up with the HS lettering. Accordingly I will take on board your advice on wad types when reloading these cases.
Many thanks to you for your input and advice and the other THR Members who have been very helpful and generous with their advice and support.
regards
Brent2172