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.416 Ruger

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Tang419, Nov 18, 2008.

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  1. Tang419

    Tang419 Member

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    :what: http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=790

    400grn Bullet at 2325 from a 20" barreled Hawkeye. I have absolutley no use for one other than to feed my recoil addiction. I've got my dealer watching, I'm getting one just as soon as they become available.

    Should be fun on Virginia Whitetail or Black Bear....lol


    They've also got the new .338 Marlin Express in a Lever gun, but that doesnt excite me any. http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=787

    Anyhoo, seen that this morning, thought I would post it. If it's a repost, sorry.
     
  2. jbech123

    jbech123 Member

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    I just don't get it....

    why anyone would want a proprietary cartridge that is way harder to find, yet offers zero performance increase. 300 RCM, 375 ruger and now this. This is really the silliest one so far since the 40 cal rounds are a fairly niche market anyhow. Just curious how the 416 ruger brings anything to this party:

    416 ruger - 400grn Bullet at 2325

    416 rem mag - 400grn @ 2449

    416 rigby - 400grn @2515
     
  3. Tang419

    Tang419 Member

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    It's from a 20" barrel. Whats the lenght on the other two ?

    Im not sure if you load your own .416 Rigby or not, but my Lyman manual shows 2434 top speed for a 400gn from a 24" barreled .416 Rigby.

    I've got it this way.

    .416 Rigby - 2434fps with a 400gr-24"
    .416 Rem Mag - 2415 w/ 400grn-24"
    .416 Ruger - 2325 w/ 400grn- 20"

    I'll take the short barrel anyday.
     
  4. jbech123

    jbech123 Member

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    I just went out to some ballistics tables on the net, I personally have a .375 H&H so I do not load for the 416 of any flavor.

    So if we go with your numbers, if we had a 20" bbl on the rem and rigby, at those velocity ranges they would probably be almost all exactly the same. I say this because a friend of mine has the exact same 375 as I do, and he chopped is barrel down to 20" and mine is at 24, and with Remington factory ammo 300 grn swift A-frame, his chrony's ~70fps slower than mine.
    So I still see a new proprietary cartridge that essentially duplicates 2 cartridges already in widespread use in a very limited market. To each their own, and I'm all for a new cartridge, it's just these new ruger rounds are really nothing new. I mean what is the 300 rcm doing that the 300 wsm and 300 saum didn't already do. Heck I thought the saum was redundant.
     
  5. Shawnee

    Shawnee member

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    If you touch that off from a 20" barrel your entire mental and physical concept of the term "LOUD" is going to be ramped up about 500%.

    ;)
     
  6. JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone

    JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone Member

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    You don't get it?

    OK,

    Less powder (1), doing nearly the same as the tried and proven cartridges/balistics through an even shorter barrel (2), and doing it without a belted case (3), marketing something new for us junkies to play with (4).

    -Same as with the WSM series that isn't any better than the 300winmag, or Ackly offerings for the 30-06, 270 or 243. And the 280rem fits right in there just below the 7mm rem mag. Or that the 30-338wild cat and .308Norma can do the same as the .30wsm's and the 300winmag as they have for more than 30 years.

    It's just Remington, Hornady and Ruger answering the WSM offerings in something different.

    The only true ammunition inovations in the last couple of years have been the LeverEvolution bullets from Hornady and the Marlin .308Express, (Hornady).

    Shawnee is right!

    -Steve
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2008
  7. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    ruger seems to be in a role at "inventing" new cartridges. So far they have not developed one that doesnt do the exact same thing as another one.

    17HMR=22Mag
    327 Federal=32HRmag
    17M2=22LR
    375Ruger=375HH
    416Ruger=416Rigby/Remington
    308MarlinExp=308Win
    338MarlinExp=338WinMag

    To add to all that they have not improved anything. Most layman might think that they made the same cartridge in a smaller and more convenient package but what they actually did was duplicate ballistics in a smaller package which leads to high pressures and case sticking. Not to mention hard wear on the rifle.

    Stop reinventing the wheel already and get rid of the Hawkeye series of rifles and keep making the good ones. ie:Mark 3, 10/22, Single Six, LCP, 77 Mk2, Balckhawk, etc.

    They are a great company with priorities in gutter.

    Breathing, breathing, rant over.
     
  8. jbech123

    jbech123 Member

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    OK, Although I can't imagine that would be a huge factor, since the number of rounds fired downrange with a .416 is pretty small for most people.


    How so, the ballistics look about the same out of a 20" barrel.


    I don't see how that is of great advantage in a round like this. We are not exactly talking about a gun that will be used for benchrest shooting.


    Sure, I understand that. I'm just saying even a guy semi serious about shooting should skip over this round since it offers no ballistic advantage. If you like to tinker, so be it.


    No that at least is a shorter cartridge that can be used in shrt action rifles. Not a huge difference, but at least something to hang your hat on.


    How is the SAUM and RCM different from the WSM ballistically?
     
  9. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

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    The Rigby gets results with very low pressure, which is desirable for a cartridge that needs to be dependable in very warm (Africa) weather. The classic 400/2400 FPS load that is shown in many manuals is the low pressure load. It is perfectly safe to load the Rigby to "modern" pressures -- as shown in several manuals -- with the result being almost Weatherby-level velocities -- although why anyone would want that is beyond me. At any rate, the Rigby is absolutely capable of meeting the Ruger velocities in the same length barrel, and anyone who does not believe it is no student of ballistics. A smaller powder chamber cannnot deliver higher velocities than a larger powder chamber, assuming similar working pressure.

    As far as I can tell, the only real advantage of the Ruger is shorter bolt throw, and I only call this an advantage because I am told some people cannot reliably manage the extra half inch of bolt on a magnum action. I have not personally seen or experienced this, but the idea that equipment can overcome incompetence has been upon us for some time now.

    I am sure the Ruger will be a fine cartridge in a fine rifle. But as has been pointed out, it certainly does seem like an unnecessary reinvention of the wheel, and for a niche market to boot. Hopefully folks will find them rewarding and the company will make a profit.
     
  10. gvnwst

    gvnwst Member

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    Very well put.
     
  11. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

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    The Rigby, FWIW, is beltless. Not that I consider that an important factor either way.
     
  12. win71

    win71 Member

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    That's for sure

    Unless you were on the ENOLA GAY it won't get much worse.
    I shoot a 416 Rem. Mag. 24" barrel and that isn't pleasant.
     
  13. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    so basically the Ruger is also beltless which lends itself to more case sticking issues because it headspaces on its shoulder.
     
  14. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

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    The belt's got little or nothing to do with it. The Ruger is simply a higher pressure cartridge than the Rigby. It is on par with any other modern high-intensity rifle cartridge, from the .223 to the .458 Winchester. And in all fairness, those cartridges all work. Especially with today's far less temperature-sensitive powders, "modern" pressures are almost guaranteed safe, even in darkest Africa -- where few, BTW, .416 users find themselves these days, if we're being perfectly honest.

    However -- and this may be an important thing -- hunters who literally depend upon their rifles to save their lives are probably well-advised to use the absolutely most reliable gun they can. That definition has historically included the lowest possible working pressures available. So if you are one of the very few folks who are going to fighting dangerous animals on the dark continent, the Ruger is probably not the best idea. If, OTOH, you are anyone else, the Ruger is sure to work just fine. Personally, I have simply read too much Ruark and will stick with the Rigby. YMM, of course, V.
     
  15. Tang419

    Tang419 Member

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    I would love to have a .416 for no other reason than just to have one. I'm thinking about getting a TC Pro Hunter, that way when my mood changes, the rifle can to. They offer a factory .416 Rigby barrel as well. The 300gr Barnes Triple Shock might be a good deer round for low meat damage

    Didnt mean to stir up a debate, just thought it was a nice interesting new cartridge.

    Now to the .338 Marlin Express being a .338 Win Mag. I've never seen a .338 WM in a compact lever rifle.
     
  16. chrissmallwood

    chrissmallwood Member

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    Earlthegoat:
    ruger seems to be in a role at "inventing" new cartridges. So far they have not developed one that doesnt do the exact same thing as another one.

    17HMR=22Mag
    327 Federal=32HRmag
    17M2=22LR
    375Ruger=375HH
    416Ruger=416Rigby/Remington
    308MarlinExp=308Win
    338MarlinExp=338WinMag


    Ruger had nothing to do with the 17HMR, 17M2, 308 Marlin Express or the 338Marlin Express, that was all Hornady. The 327 is more than just a 32H&R magnum. I dont see the point of the RCM's but if they work good and they get people to buy them then more power to them.
     
  17. db_tanker

    db_tanker Member

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    meh....why bother?

    I have a 416 Taylor...yeah its belted but oh well, does that make it obsolete? :) lol


    I guess that the 300 WM or 338 WM or 458 WM or 7mm RM are all worthless too.

    but I gotta give 'em credit...there are a ton of folks out there that want to buy the newest or fastest or neatest gizmo...just more work for the folks who produce Cartridges of the World. :)

    D
     
  18. Tang419

    Tang419 Member

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    Hey hey, watch it, the .300 WM is a passion for me :D
     
  19. db_tanker

    db_tanker Member

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    hey...I want a 300 WM...I want to play around with those 200 grain 308 bullets...would like to find a magnum length mauser action to play with and a nice 28" barrel...just to see what I could get them bad boys to do.


    also forgot that there was some interesting wildcat based on the WSM cartridge necked up to 416. Woodswalker or some name like that. Looked interesting...guess Ruger thought so as well. :) lol
     
  20. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    I dont argue that any of these work, I argue what the point is.

    The 17HMR, 17M2, were developed by Hornady in cahoots with Marlin and Ruger. I can only imagine they had influence in the 308 Marlin Express and the 338Marlin Express as well.
     
  21. B BRI

    B BRI Member

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    . . . even though I already have a 416 Rigby, and God knows I don't need another big bore:evil:, after playing with a 375 Ruger 77 African at Bass Pro Shop, I am convinced that I will own one in 416 Ruger.

    Just a rifle that fits when you swing it up to the shoulder . . .

    I've always thought I would like a 416 Taylor, just for fun, and this new Ruger might just fit the bill instead.
     
  22. B BRI

    B BRI Member

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    . . . and one can never have too many "Elmer Keith Class" shooters . . .

    I've always wanted a 476 Westley Richards since he carried one . . . . will I ever find/afford one, probably not, but that doesn't stop various other big bores from following me home.

    The more the merrier.
     
  23. Tang419

    Tang419 Member

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    DB, I am ordering some 200gr Accubonds and 200gr Gamekings to toy with. Should be able to get 2900ish out of my 24" barrel.

    B BRI, I use Elmer Keith as my argument for overkill calibers :D
     
  24. db_tanker

    db_tanker Member

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    I had my "Elmer Kieth" period in reloading already...


    44 Mag 14" Contender and 45 Win Mag 10" contender.


    When I was getting a fireball out of the 44 Mag that rivaled most M-44 Mosins...and was having to recheck the scope bases after every shoot...well...I figured that he already walked those paths and didn't need my foot-prints all over the trail. :)


    Now I try to stick to the middle of the loads and a bit lower.

    Back to Tang419....2900 with a 200 grain pill would be some serious medicine for any critter around here....ESPECIALLY those Game Kings...I love them bullets. I love Sierra bullets.
     
  25. B BRI

    B BRI Member

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    I fell in love with the big bores reading Keith, and have loaded up to the max on several of them in my younger days. But with age and a little wisdom I have really found his message to actually be this -

    big bullets with good sectional density at moderate velocities = big medicine

    and as Elmer said, "you can eat up to the hole".
     
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