.44 Mag or .45 Colt. accuracy and reach ONLY

[murf]

bergmen,

one more tidbit, case wall thickness at the mouth runs .012". a .475" die won't work with .451" bullets. they will fall into the case.

check your expander plug diameter (on the belling die). it should be about .003" less than bullet diameter.

murf

 

[skidder]

A 20 year veteran reloader and owner of the 5.5 Redhawk and 5.5 Super Blackhawk (my favorite length for the 44). Never had any problems reloading the 44, and that is why I would recommend it. IMO the 44 is too big to be a belly gun so why go shorter than 4"? That job is best handled by the versatile and resourceful three-fifty-seven.

 

[Red Cent]

http://www.castbullet.com/misc/accrsa.htm

 

[98Redline]

There is no way I would try to ream my throats out using a wooden dowel chucked into a hand held electric drill. It is way too easy to egg out your throats or chambers.

Send the cylinder to Cylindersmith.com and he will properly ream the chambers and throats for $42.

 

[skidder]

Thanks for your 2 cents, Red Cent. That was a good read!

 

[gazpacho]

I have always preferred the blast from 45 colt over 44 mag, without regard to platform, or powder charge, or bullet weight. Because of that, I tend to shoot 45 colt better. That's probably psychosomatic, but it's a fact in my life.

Just something to consider.

 

[freedom475]

My vote is for the 44mag...I have several 45colts including one FA 97...but the 44's just seem to shoot everything I feed them more accurately ...the 45's seem more challenging to find accurate load combinations for.

One consideration.. if you ever find yourself "needing" an extra box of factory shells, the 44 mags are magnums...most 45colt factory rounds will have 1/2 the power.

Many say the 45's bigger case capacity allows it to match the 44's ballistics with 15% less pressure.... True,..but so what, this whole point is kind of silly since the Super Black Hawk 44 is 15% stronger than the 45 Blackhawk, there'by canceling out any advantage the 45colt may have.

I suppose this pressure increase is part of what makes the 44's blast bigger.

I just ran the numbers throught the ballisics program and the 44mag only gains 5" on the 45 at 400yards with a 240gr bullet in each running the same velocity.

 

[RmB]

.45 long colt or .45 acp?

 

[freedom475]

RmB .45 long colt or .45 acp?

uh-oh..here we go..:banghead: I am afraid to say it.. Long Colt No such thing, I know..but it obviously causes confusion.

The 45 "Colt"...the ACP is an "acp"

 

[Sport45]

.45 Colt is descriptive enough.

Colt .45 can lead to some confusion,,, in more ways than one.

 

[StrawHat]

.45 long colt or .45 acp?

It depends on what you want to do. With the long Colt cartridge, you can load heavier bullets than in the shorter ACP cartridge. I load the ACP with 260 grain cast bullets but the longer 2785 grain bullets go into the 45 long Colt. Some guys have loaded the 300+ grain bullets into the 45 long Colt but I don't need a bullet that heavy. I guess some guys have loaded the 300 grain into the ACP but I can't imagine it leaves a lot of room for the powder.

 

[CraigC]

.45 Colt is descriptive enough.

Colt .45 can lead to some confusion,,, in more ways than one.

Agreed! Merely ".45 Colt" should be sufficient. No need for "Long" as there never was a "Long" or a "Short" for that matter. The cartridges in question can be easily discerned from their proper names.
.45Colt
.45ACP (.45Auto)
.45S&W (Schofield)
.45Gov't (so obscure you probably never heard of it)

 

[eldon519]

If you think you might ever wind up owning a .454 Casull (a reasonable possibility for someone asking about long-range performance), it may make a little more sense to own the .45 Colt. Otherwise I would get a .44 magnum. I agree that Ruger's .45 Colt products tend to be a little rougher around the edges when compared with their revolvers in other calibers.

 

[skidder]

454 Casull = .45 Long colt....

 

[Lost Sheep]

454 Casull = .45 Long colt....

I am pretty sure the smiley face indicates that you know better, but text is very easy to read differently than it was intended. Your post could mislead a less knowledgeable reader.

Untrue: "454 Casull = .45 Long colt"

True: "454 Casull = a LONG .45 Long colt"

45 Colt case is 1.285" long (and often referred to as 45 Long Colt)
454 Casull case is 1.381" long

Lost Sheep
edit: skidder, sory about that. I did not mean to be sharp, That was as rounded off as I thought I could make it.

 

[skidder]

You are correct.

That is how I meant it, LOOOONGER than the .45 Colt

I need to be carefull. There might be a few out there who believe what they read on the internet.

Lost Sheep-- Thanks for the sharp rebuke. I'm used to it, my wife does it all the time.

 

[Coal Dragger]

bergmen,

Surprised your throats on the FA are that large, the throats on mine are near as I can tell from measuring a slugged ball right around .4525. I am using a set of calipers so it is within +/- .001. They will pass a Cast Performance .452 bullet with firm finger pressure, and .452 jacketed bullets also have to be helped through. Smaller .451 jacketed bullets pass snuggly but freely.

All of them seem to shoot well too.

 

[41 Mag]

Personally I am not as big a BH fan as I once was. I know they are wonderful revolvers but I simply fell head over heels for the RH's. I have them in 41,44, and 45 Colt. They all shoot much better than I can as as far as finding a load, the latest, in 45 Colt has digested everything I have run through it, (lead only at this point) from 200 through 300grs. To be quite honest I haven't found anything yet that it won't shoot pretty darned well.

I find that within normal pressure loads there isn't enough differences between the two, 44, and 45C, to make a hill of beans. To be honest I am finding that I like the 45 more and more simply shooting loads in the 1000 - 1200fps range using weights of around 250grs. Muzzle blast and recoil from either of them in this range is very tolerable, and there are plenty of commercial cast bullets out there as well as plenty of proven molds to pour you own. With the jacketed, well your somewhat at a disadvantage with the Colt as most bullets are made for the 45acp or the 454, so you have very narrow niche to choose from within the Colt's velocity range that will expand properly. Cast however, you have a wide range of not only weights, but styles and hardness as well from the WFN to RN depending on what you thing is. Not to mention being able to size to fit your particular revolver.

I only picked up the Colt due to the fact my grandfather had a Colt Army, and I always like to shoot it as kid, but it was poorly kept and shot plenty of BP loads as such was eroded to the point I will never fire it. It was simply due to sentimental reasons I got mine, and figured I might as well round out my RH collection. In doing so I read up on it before ever buying into which or what type loads I would be shooting. One of the best reads and more convincing to me was Linebaugh's, The .45 Colt - Dissolving the Myth, Discovering the Potential

In reading through this write up I found that I didn't need to try and load up to the Ruger level loads in order to get good accuracy or productive knock down. In fact I settled on one of his loads using HS-6 and the 260gr RFN as my main go to load and just like he said it shoots wonderful and is very pleasing on the shooter. If I want full throttle power I step up to the 454 and rock and roll.

To be honest I would pick which ever you feel is more your style based upon your typical type of shooting and go for it. Neither are a bad choice.

 

[BSA1]

Another long time reloader and shooter here.

First let me say I am a mere mortal. What that means is when I am testing for accuracy I never know for sure if I am really testing my ability to hold the sights consistently in the exact same spot as the previous round or if I am testing gun or am I testing the load.

Those questions can only be answered by trigger time on the range.

As anyone that reloads the 45 Colt biggest limitation is the strength of the gun it is being used in. We know the COLT SAA is the weakist, followed by RUGERS and then oh my God FREEDOM ARMS.

The next factor to remember about the 45 Colt is it's long history and how much it has evolved. 44 mag. and 45 Colt both use the same high quality solid head brass, same choices of powders and a wide variety of bullets.

When it comes to using REAL gunpowder the 45 Colt has the edge.

There are simply to many variables for me to get excited about 100 fps =/-.

As I said in my intro I am a experienced reloader. As such I tend to honor the original intended use of each round.

The 45 Colt is the legendary magnum of its day and undisputed man stopper.

The 44 magnum...well punk make my day!

 

[bergmen]

bergmen,

Surprised your throats on the FA are that large, the throats on mine are near as I can tell from measuring a slugged ball right around .4525. I am using a set of calipers so it is within +/- .001. They will pass a Cast Performance .452 bullet with firm finger pressure, and .452 jacketed bullets also have to be helped through. Smaller .451 jacketed bullets pass snuggly but freely.

All of them seem to shoot well too.

I was really surprised as well. I haven't taken the .454 cylinder out yet to measure it, I hope to do that today.

I will also measure the .454 and .45 Colt carbide resizing dies to see if there is a difference there (I expect there will be).

I have been reloading for the .45 Colt for about 20 years and there is always something new to learn about this fantastic handgun caliber.

I had a 7 1/2" BH for about 15 years until I discovered a new 7 1/2" Bisley under the glass at the LGS. My son has the BH now (and loves it) and I added the FA model 83 in .454 with a fitted .45 Colt cylinder at the time of order.

I'll post the measurements later today after some farm chores get done...

Dan

 

[Slamfire]

I shoot most of my 44 Magnum's in a 7.5 inch Super Blackhawk, the 45 LC's are in N frame Smiths.

I do not load extra heavy 45 LC's and I would be cautious about doing so even if I owned a 45 LC Blackhawk because I would be afraid of one finding its way into a N frame. Or a New Service, something I own.

Shooting offhand at a 12" gong target at 100 yards, my hit probability with the 44 Mag is very good and you can tell it hits hard at that range. The 45 LC, a 250 at 850 fps, is running out of gas at that distance.

Now if you could duplicate some of those 40 grain blackpowder loads in balloon head cases in a 45 LC, I read that some are getting 1000 fps, a Colt SAA and a 1000 fps load would be an amazingly light and powerful combination.

 

[bergmen]

Okay, further measurements:

I removed the .454 cylinder from the FA and measured the chambers and throats:

Chamber: .4800/.4805
Throat: .4535

So, smaller chamber diameter for the .454 vs. .45 Colt at .4835/.4840, same throat diameter at .4535 as the .45 Colt.

I also measured my RCBS carbide resizing dies and got these numbers:

.45 Colt: .4670
.454: .4680

So, .001 larger with the .454. My understanding is the expander die for the .454 is .001 smaller than the .45 Colt in order to have increased neck tension. I have not measured them and won't for now since it involves disassembly of dies that are set up right now.

It needs it since I have had some minor bullet walk with the heavy .454 loads (30 grains W296) even though I do a max roll crimp.

I have a custom Lee FCD die for the .45 Colt, I might need to get one for the .454 if I do a lot of shooting with the big loads.

Dan

 

[StrawHat]

...Now if you could duplicate some of those 40 grain blackpowder loads in balloon head cases in a 45 LC, I read that some are getting 1000 fps, a Colt SAA and a 1000 fps load would be an amazingly light and powerful combination...

John Linebaugh gets that with a 4" barreled S&W M25-5. Using a 260 grain cast bullet and 20 grains of 2400 powder. He also achieves that with a different recipe using H110. Unique and Universal are also powders that give ballistics that duplicate teh old black powder loads. And of course, balck powder is still available.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Bergmen,

I would suggest using a neck down crimp, and crimp after you seat bullets. I have never had bullet walk, but I set my dies up according to the instructions in the Speer manual for a heavy heavy neck down crimp. You do of course have to have a bullet with a cannelure of at least .06" to accomplish this or otherwise you will crush the case when you try to crimp it.

 

[bergmen]

Bergmen,

I would suggest using a neck down crimp, and crimp after you seat bullets. I have never had bullet walk, but I set my dies up according to the instructions in the Speer manual for a heavy heavy neck down crimp. You do of course have to have a bullet with a cannelure of at least .06" to accomplish this or otherwise you will crush the case when you try to crimp it.

So far I've just been using the roll crimp that comes with the bullet seating dies (RCBS). I started bullet seating and crimping as seperate operations some time ago when I found that I would shave copper (or lead as the case may be) when doing both at the same time.

All of the bullets I use for high powered loads have a cannelure since they are heavy duty JHP's. I have crushed cases before (both .357 Magnum and .45 Colt) by over-crimping so I closely examine the crimp settings to avoid that these days.

I'm relatively new at maximum .454 loads (less than 100 rounds so far) and I've only seen a few rounds with slight bullet walk (not enough to hang up the cylinder).

Dan