.44 mag vs 30/30 in 16 inch barrel

[PapaG]

I have both, though with 20" barrels. First choice for me is my 336 with 170 grain bullets. 1 1/2 MOA consistently. My 94s, one old (60s) Winchester and a JM Marlin neither one will much better than do triple that (and I know how to load, develop and shoot).
My guns, my choice. I do like the 44s for bumming around the farm, seeing if I can hit that chuck or 'yote, or maybe the farm dam builders.

 

[DustyGmt]

30-30 is going to provide more power overall however 44 is close behind and out of short barrels ill take a .42 caliber over a .308 any day when floating around the expansion threshold in any case. Plus 44 mag bullets are designed to expand out of handguns at close range so out of a 16 in rifle they do a great deal of expanding out to 100 yards easily. What I'm getting at is go with the 44 mag, plus ammo can be cheaper when available depending on shortages.

Is that true?? I was routinely seeing 20rd boxes of 30-30 for $9-$10. I don't know what .44mag costs for the cheapest brands but at least for 20rd boxes of JHP it's quite expensive. What was the going rate for a box of 50 .44mag? I ask because I'm thinking about getting one too and I'd like to know what target loads are on the cheaper end assuming ammo goes back to normal again in the next decade.

 

[hossfly]

Just me, but I take a non traditional view of the 30- 30. My favorite projectile is the speer 130 flat nose I dont use IMR powders, BLC2, and other Hodgen offerings are the better offerings to propel the 130 @ 2700+.
But, I load, and dont purchase the fairly anemic factory cartridges for my use.
With this combination a 3" high 100 yd zero is very adequate to 300 yds.

Interesting. Do you use this combination on deer sized game? If so has it been satisfactory?

 

[Risky buisness]

I've used this combination for a decade at least.
The velocity I get are 2700 plus. And yes its extremely effective. Think reduced recoil factory .270 velocity. And no one complains about a 270 130 grain for deer. But here's the deal, everyone poo poos the 30-30 on being a 150 yd rifle, it's the sights not the cartridge, especially with a fast 130. So if your a traditional shooter receiver sights, tang sights I like Pacific machine receiver sights. Or optics are the best plan to use a great projectile at distance. Just hang with PSI under 40,000 for modern Winchester/ Marlin, or Henery.

 

[horsey300]

The .44 rifle bore diameter makes me vote .30-30, custom barrel with appropriate diameter and faster twist? .44

 

[skfullen]

A couple of additional thoughts as this thread progresses...

I was purchasing 30/30, pre- pandemic, for about $12 per box of 20 (PPU, 150 GR., purchased in lots of 10 boxes. That's .60 per round. That would be $30 per box of 50. I think .44 mag is going to be more expensive.
I was also buying Federal 30/30 for about $15 a box at the LGS when it was on sale. And, for me, the PPS works great in all my lever 30/30's. The advantage of price for ammo goes to the 30/30.
When considering the additional magazine capacity of the .44 mag, it is not only equally suited for short range hunting, but becomes a significant option for use as a self defense weapon. Whether traveling or staying home during these times of social upheaval, the 44 would be a preferable companion to the 30/30, while remaining a great hunting firearm.
Just my .02.

 

[Risky buisness]

Plenty of pros/ cons, while I no longer have a .44 in a rifle, I sure do use a 45 colt heavy loaded with a Keith style 270 grain, other posters have mentioned a twist rate issue for the real heavy bullets, and I concur, I believe if I can come up with a 270-280 grain wide flat nose the 45 may be a ' better ' rifle. I take my 16" .45 in heavy timber simply because it's so damn handy and have never had a failure, its actually in my mind, a more potent cartridge.
On the other hand, my Marlin with my favorite timber load is a Sacco 160 flat point paper patch around 2300 + is a great rifle for elk or any other larger game. I'm actually set up pretty well for either, but tend to roll towards the heavy load .44.

 

[Risky buisness]

The .44 rifle bore diameter makes me vote .30-30, custom barrel with appropriate diameter and faster twist? .44

I'm all about making things work for the end owner, I have also bounced around a new bbl for my .45 colt where the heavy bullets would work more accurately.
Barring that expense, I just found molds that work for what I have currently.
just kidding here.... it's all your decision....but go for it pick up a .44 new custom bbl, make your gunsmith happy not just working with ' boring ' bolt guns......and show pics

 

[hossfly]

I've used this combination for a decade at least.
The velocity I get are 2700 plus. And yes its extremely effective. Think reduced recoil factory .270 velocity. And no one complains about a 270 130 grain for deer. But here's the deal, everyone poo poos the 30-30 on being a 150 yd rifle, it's the sights not the cartridge, especially with a fast 130. So if your a traditional shooter receiver sights, tang sights I like Pacific machine receiver sights. Or optics are the best plan to use a great projectile at distance. Just hang with PSI under 40,000 for modern Winchester/ Marlin, or Henery.

The biggest thing with .277 bullet is it has a higher sectional density. This is why it is considered a good weight for 270.

 

[Risky buisness]

Agreed. Using the 130 .270 for comparison.
I would then suppose that purely for sectional density concerns a 7 Waters may be a superior performer in that 130+ - weight range, assuming a tube magazine friendly projectile was avaliable.
Humm.....I have a spare marlin.....just laying around...

 

[horsey300]

Agreed. Using the 130 .270 for comparison.
I would then suppose that purely for sectional density concerns a 7 Waters may be a superior performer in that 130+ - weight range, assuming a tube magazine friendly projectile was avaliable.
Humm.....I have a spare marlin.....just laying around...

Or just use the pointies and make a fast reloading 2 shot repeater.

 

[mavracer]

The biggest thing with .277 bullet is it has a higher sectional density. This is why it is considered a good weight for 270.

Sectional density goes out the window once the bullet starts to expand.

 

[horsey300]

Sectional density goes out the window once the bullet starts to expand.

So a .30 220 rn is in the same class as a .30 110 hp?

 

[Varminterror]

Or just use the pointies and make a fast reloading 2 shot repeater.

Three shot repeater.

The major risk in the tube mag is the pointed bullet igniting the primer as the cartridge stack advances and suddenly stops against the magazine tube cartridge stop. Loading 1 in the chamber and 2 in the tube precludes this from ever happening. The first shot is fired, after which the only “nose to tail” cartridge in the sequence is then released to the carrier, and the remaining 3rd round free falls against the cartridge stop, so there’s never an instance where multiple cartridges in the stack index and come to a sudden stop.

Three rounds for a hunting rifle is pretty serviceable.

 

[hossfly]

Sectional density goes out the window once the bullet starts to expand.

You are correct. It's all relative. In fact about everything regarding our hobby is about relative measure. A bullet in the vitals is going to kill the deer. The idea of the "best" bullet is probably very subjective.

 

[jmorris]

Three rounds for a hunting rifle is pretty serviceable.

Two more than a number of my hunting firearms hold.

It’s only not enough when you need more

 

[ThomasT]

You can spend a lot of time here reading about lever actions and how they compare.

https://leverguns.com/articles/Default.htm

 

[CraigC]

Sectional density goes out the window once the bullet starts to expand.

It changes but it doesn't go out the window. A bullet with a bigger "ass" is still going to penetrate more than one with a smaller one.

 

[mavracer]

So a .30 220 rn is in the same class as a .30 110 hp?

Of course not but neither is a .30 150 jhp and a .30 150 fmj even though they have the same sectional density.
And in the context of what I quoted the pre impact diameter of two 130gr bullets will mean nada if they both expand to a similar diameter on impact.

 

[mavracer]

It changes but it doesn't go out the window. A bullet with a bigger "ass" is still going to penetrate more than one with a smaller one.

So in the context of what I quoted exactly which one has the bigger "ass"?

 

[jeff-10]

All other things being equal, I would go 44 Magnum with a 16 inch barrel. Makes much more sense since the majority of ammunition is designed to perform at less velocity than you would be getting.

 

[CraigC]

So in the context of what I quoted exactly which one has the bigger "ass"?

The heavier bullet has the bigger ass. Take two bullets the same diameter but different weights. They expand to the same diameter, the heavier bullet (higher SD) will penetrate deeper. The fact that the bullet expands changes sectional density, it does not make it irrelevant.

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

I got the Ruger M77/44, 16 inch barrel. I tried a scope but feel better with open sights. I am overrun with hogs, some up close. it is a sledge hammer. I carry my .44 Ruger Blackhawk as a sidearm.

 

[horsey300]

So in the context of what I quoted exactly which one has the bigger "ass"?

The .270 130 will have a bigger azz than the .30 in length, but less so in diameter. .270/130 for elk? Maybe. .30/130 for elk=

 

[Blackbeard 44]

I got an idea, since we are getting to the end of the 3rd page and it has not yet been suggested, I think the OP should go to his LGS and just buy boffem rifles and consider the debate settled.