That is some real cosmic fate for sure.
44 Magnum or 45 Colt?
- Thread starter spider 69
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You gotta love that .444 Marlin. It has a life of its own. Talk about a cosmic fate.
Happy 444 to you as well.
God bless,
Alaska444
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
That's a myth. Comparable loads will have comparable recoil. A 250gr bullet at 1200fps is going to feel the same, whether it comes from a .44Mag or a .45Colt. The only difference is perception.......and Linebaugh's famous sales pitch.
That's a little contradictory. You can handload either cartridge to comparable levels.
USSR
Member
David E,
Google John Linebaugh and S&W 25-5. There is quite a bit of space between .45LC cowboy loads and Ruger only loads (see John L's work with the S&W 25-5 below).
Since the S&W 25-2 is safe for .45ACP+P ammo rated at 23k psi, running the 25-5 at the same pressure level is no problem, which is exactly what I do. My favorite load is a handcast 265gr SWC HP propelled by 18.0gr of 2400.
Don
David E
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Don,
No argument. It just seemed to me that some folks were inferring Ruger-only loads would be fine in the 25-5
The load levels I listed are well above Cowboy loads.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Which is why we should resist the urge to use ambiguous, non-specific terms like "hot, heavy or +P". Be specific. For there are no less than four tiers of .45Colt sixguns and loads ranging from blackpowder levels to custom five-shot guns that run 55,000psi.
Hondo 60
Member
Are you suggesting that he shoot 44 magnum rounds from a 45 Colt?
That would NOT be very smart.
The pressure generated from a 44 mag round can be as high as 36,000 PSI
45 Colt rounds go up to 14,000 (per SAAMI specs)
Even the "Ruger Only" Loads go to 25,000 CUP
Again, I repeat, that would NOT be smart.
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zxcvbob
Member
And most importantly, it would ruin the brass!
WoodchuckAssassin
Member
Apart from the round itself (and both are fine rounds, as many others have stated) you should consider what gun they will be flying out of. For either round, I think the Ruger Blackhawk is the perfect "HOLY CRAP IT'S A BEAR!" gun. It comes in both calibers. I personally prefer the feel of a 45 colt going off in my hand, but there is no wrong answer.
wlewisiii
Member
Not really. I don't load to .44 Magnum levels. 9 grains of Unique behind a 250 grain LSWC will get me 1000 fps which is greater than factory .45 Colt but much less punishing than magnum loads. Why do I need anything more when that will go in a bear's mouth and out his backdoor?
+1, agree completely.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
You don't HAVE to load the .44Mag to .44Mag levels. Unique goes into a .44Mag case just as easily as it does a .45Colt case. Only you'll need less of it to reach the same velocities.
Thanks all
Very informative posts.
What I'm taking away from this is that blackies don't require APFSDS(antitank) rounds. Moderate loads in either 44 mag or 45 colt will get it done. After all, once a bullet exits the critter any additional energy is wasted. This brings the choice more down to the gun. My 629 is a 6". Seems to me a 4" is a better choice in this situation, Faster draw and easier handling, particularly on the ground pinned under a bear.
On the other hand, it's not inconceivable that I could find myself in the Montana woods where Griz can happen. Blackhawks can handle either round loaded heavy but are S/A and I think that the extra step of cocking the hammer for each shot could be a be problem. However, what about the Redhawk 4" in 45 Colt? Anybody have experience with them?
As to pepper spray, remember, this bear stalked me. There was no huffing or jaw slapping. He was just suddenly there. At that range pepper spray would have impacted me as well. Even if he was driven off, is it ethical to let him escape to probably do that again?
To answer the question about the bear's size/weight, I was on my knees inside my van, looking out the side door window and his back came close to the window bottom. I didn't havr to look down much.
Very informative posts.
What I'm taking away from this is that blackies don't require APFSDS(antitank) rounds. Moderate loads in either 44 mag or 45 colt will get it done. After all, once a bullet exits the critter any additional energy is wasted. This brings the choice more down to the gun. My 629 is a 6". Seems to me a 4" is a better choice in this situation, Faster draw and easier handling, particularly on the ground pinned under a bear.
On the other hand, it's not inconceivable that I could find myself in the Montana woods where Griz can happen. Blackhawks can handle either round loaded heavy but are S/A and I think that the extra step of cocking the hammer for each shot could be a be problem. However, what about the Redhawk 4" in 45 Colt? Anybody have experience with them?
As to pepper spray, remember, this bear stalked me. There was no huffing or jaw slapping. He was just suddenly there. At that range pepper spray would have impacted me as well. Even if he was driven off, is it ethical to let him escape to probably do that again?
To answer the question about the bear's size/weight, I was on my knees inside my van, looking out the side door window and his back came close to the window bottom. I didn't havr to look down much.
Sounds like a big bear.
DA is preferred by most for a woods gun since you don't have cock it each time. I went with the Ruger SRH 7.5 inch in .44 magnum and carry it cross carry with a bandolier holster. I find it draws well. I also like the added weight which helps tame the recoil.
Sounds like a habituated bear. If it was truly stalking you, then is could be a potentially dangerous bear. Yes, there is an aspect of duty to protect others from a dangerous bear. The issue lies in how to define a "dangerous" bear. Simply because he had no fear of you does not mean it is a bear that will attack. Not sure how well the F&G would have taken that sort of action without more of a provocation.
I don't disagree with your concern and hope I don't get that kind of encounter myself, but just playing the devils advocate that you know the police and F&G will spin that type of encounter.
I think it is hard to tell whether it is just a habituated bear with no fear or whether you aborted an attack. In such a case, you would have to prove it was an actual attack especially if you discharged a weapon inside of city limits which is illegal just about anywhere you go. Just saying, not really disagreeing or taking any issue of your rightful concern.
God bless,
Alaska444
Thanks for your concern. It's certainly a valid issue. If there was any question, I would get ready and wait. If I had the luxury of time the first thing I'd try was a warning shot. Don't know what the minimum safe distance would be and I too hope to never find out.
best Regards,
spider
Also have to add that the previous post applies to that particular situation: pitch black night, unfamiliar ground, my wife in the van behind me with no other exit. Otherwise, retreat and yell could also be a good option. Thing is, I saw a vid of an encounter with a blackie a man alone took with his cell. He retreated and yelled and the bear just followed him for a good ways before finally giving up. What if he had come to an obstacle? Better to have a gun and not need it....
It is silly to be in bear country without lethal deterrence of some sort. I believe the video you are talking about took over 30 minutes for the predatory stalking black bear to give up only after the man swam to another person in a canoe. He was fortunate to make it out alive. I bet he trades the cell phone for a hand gun next time.
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