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44 Spl. A little light and a little short

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by D.B. Cooper, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. Charliefrank

    Charliefrank Member

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    I've used many lbs of unique over the years. .2 grains isn't a big deal with this particular powder. The bullets should clear the barrel just fine
     
  2. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Yea, like 700X, it shoots much better than it meters.
     
  3. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    Well thanks, everyone, for your input. I just got back from the range. I fired those 30 rounds with no problems at all. They grouped into one ragged hole at 7 rds, and all inside the black of a 50 ft slow fire target at 15 yrds. Even with below minimum powder, they still had a surprisingly healthy report and recoil. Another 42 from that batch of 100, I fired in a league tonight - only missed twice.

    Of the 100 rounds I loaded, I found two with not fully seated primers that completely locked up the revolver. I found these in practice, before the league shoot, which prompted to inspect every single cartridge as I loaded them into the speed loaders for the league. Only 2 out of 100. I'll get a bullet puller and dismantle them later. I have them separated from the rest. I'll pay more attention next time.

    Other than that, ammo all shot fine. I still have about 25 left. I'll load another 100 this weekend, and shoot them at next week's league shoot.
     
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  4. drband

    drband Member

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    You can seat those primers more deeply as long as you are very careful. Slow steady pressure til the primer bottoms out will do it.
    I have done that on my LCT in the past.

    Wear safety glasses and be aware of what you are doing and you’ll be fine.

    I know some folks will disagree with my recommendation. I have a healthy respect for primers and the danger involved. You should, too.

    A hand primer should work just as well.
     
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  5. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    It is easy to seat primers too soft and not fully seat them. It is very hard to seat a primer so hard it doesn't work (Nearly impossible?).

    Seat them firmly, make sure they bottom out.
     
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  6. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    I got a couple new tubes from Hornady. I left powder in the hopper for a couple weeks, Titegroup as I recall.
    It really ate up the plastic, etched and warped it.
    Being the slow learner that I am, I've done it again with one of the new tubes, different powder.
    I inverted the tube and still have a new spare one.
    . IMG_1494.JPG
     
  7. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    I guess I'm just lucky.... I have left powders in hoppers for weeks and weeks for a high-volume load. I know I have left AA#7, HS-6, Silhouette, and VV N320 each for periods of a month or more in Lee powder measures without any apparent damage to the hopper or powder.

    I may be the only pistol reloader in the world who has never messed with Titegroup, but it seems like nasty stuff! Blows up guns with bullet setback... eats powder hoppers...
     
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  8. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    And now you know why so many people recommend Unique as the first powder for a new reloader! It may not meter very precisely, but it is quite forgiving. It will work at least "OK" in a wide window of weights and applications. I'm sure you can still blow up a gun with an overcharge, but you can get away with more with Unique than with some other powders - not just from a safety standpoint, but in terms of making ammo that will shoot well.
     
  9. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Another high nitro content powder.
     
  10. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I tried it, didn't care for it. I have most of a pound left I would give away to someone local who wanted it. Won't even give it to my kids, would rather buy them something else.
     
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  11. SamT1

    SamT1 Member

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    The Lee measures must be immune. I’ve got one that’s had red dot in it for 3 years. Another had had h227 in it for at least 1 year. My C&H has H110 in it for 3 years or more. I had RL22 in one for a long time before too.
     
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  12. Patocazador

    Patocazador Member

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    I loaded up 50 rounds of .44 special today with 240 SWCs and 6.4 gr. of Unique. I always hand weigh Unique because It doesn't measure right for me.
     
  13. ray15

    ray15 Member

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    It works well for me. Not even heard of the setback concern. It's just a fast-burning ball powder, a little faster than HP38. I've heard it puts a lot of heat into the gun, but I've had no issues, even though I'll shoot 3-400 rounds of it an hour at times. I can heat up a gun with any powder. I've got a powder measure dedicated to it and there's usually some left in the hopper, to no detriment to this point.

    Titegroup is popular because its burn rates make for good low to mid velocity loads for many calibers, and it's usually easy to find accuracy. It's also very dense, so you get 1500-2000 9mm loads out of a $19 pound, making it extremely economical. I use it for my 9mm and 38 special range fodder, and don't see it as being any more idiosyncratic than a large flake powder.
     
  14. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    At least a third of my USPSA buddies shoot Titegroup, and they like it because, as you say, it is very economical, meters well, and can easily make low-recoil minor power factor 9mm.

    But it is also a twitchy powder. Its pressure curve is decidedly non-linear, so relatively small changes in things like amount of powder or case volume can cause disproportionately large changes in pressure. Google "titegroup twitchy" or "titegroup pressure curve" or "titegroup peaky" or "titegroup kaboom" and you can read lots of discussion and information about it.

    Lots of people love it. I'll stick to AA#2 for my fast ball powder needs.
     
  15. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    And I'll add WST, Competition, Clays, and N-310. (Clays and N-310 are a bit "spiky" at the top)
     
  16. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    I've used Titegroup quite a bit but not so much anymore. It is economical and meters great.
    The main issue I have with it is that it seems to burn so hot. After a few mags my handgun barrels and slides get very hot, I don't notice that with AA 5, 231,
    and others. Don't know that it hurts anything but it annoys me.
     
  17. ray15

    ray15 Member

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    I do not believe there's really much foundation to this. Due to the fact that Titegroup is a very dense powder, it requires more accuracy from the powder measure. But if you look at deviations in charge weight by percentage, its no more twitchy or peaky than HP38.

    I've looked at the issue in Quickload. A 9mm Titegroup load using a 124gr. plated bullet reaches max pressure at ~4.3gr. This produces about 34.5k PSI. If you up the charge by 10% to 4.73 gr, you produce ~42k PSI. A similar HP38 load requires 4.8gr. as it is less dense, making a 10% overcharge 5.28gr. Again, this elevates pressure from ~34.5k to over 42k PSI. So a 0.43gr. error with Titegroup has the same affect on pressure as a 0.48gr. deviation with HP38. This just isn't a deal-breaker to me, especially as Titegroup meters very, very well.

    I've spent a lot of time getting my powder measure to drop reliably. The one I use for Titegroup will throw +/- .05gr. reliably. If I need 5gr. I set it to where the max drop is 5.0 and I get 5.0 or 4.9 on every drop. I also am very careful to quantify bullet seating depth and correlate my loads' velocity against the published data to ensure I'm at a safe pressure. I start at an OAL that chambers in a SAAMI-minimum chamber with no leade and start low and work up with measured charges and chronograph so I know exactly what my max charge is under the worst-case scenario. With all powders. If you aren't doing all of this the density of Titegroup could give the impression that it is principally different from other powders.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  18. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I don't think the density has anything to do with it being touchy at top pressures, or it's (IMHO) deserved rep for being "twitchy" or whatever one wants to call it. It is a high Nitro content powder which helps it get the velocity with small charge weights, but adds heat. It does meter well, which is good. Oh, and no one has mentioned "Titegroup stain.

    Being touchy at top pressures does not mean it cannot be used safely, it can, just like some other fast powders that are somewhat unforgiving when you reach the top.

    You pretty much spelled out how to do this. Careful loading. :)
     
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  19. ray15

    ray15 Member

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    It's not really any more touchy than HP38, it's just a bit more dense. Published load data as well as examination in Quickload demonstrate this. 10% greater charge elevates chamber pressure no more than a 10% increase in charge with other fast powders. The pressure curves are actually very similar, they just occur over the slightly reduced charge weights produced by the higher energy density of Titegroup.
     
  20. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I defi
    I definitely have to disagree with that in real life.
     
  21. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    That is how I would define "More Touchy"
     
  22. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    IMHO, Clays is "spikier" than Titegroup, but I like Clays, you just have to be careful with it. W-231 is fairly forgiving compared to either.
     
  23. ray15

    ray15 Member

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    I don't see the difference even going to less dense powders like CFE-P. Since it needs to be loaded close to max to work well you have the same need for accuracy of the charge weight anyway.
     
  24. ray15

    ray15 Member

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    To each his own, but to me it's just the definition of more dense.
     
  25. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Titegroup has a more narrow window in charge weights than most. Still doesn't make it unsafe by its self, just another factor in using it.