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44mag carbine bullet

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Axis II, Nov 18, 2019.

  1. Axis II

    Axis II Member

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    It just hit me that gun season starts December 2nd and I still need to mount the scope on my handi rifle, bore sight, load ammo and sight it in. I use 240gr XTP but thinking I want to try something else this year because I've heard a few guys say the XTP turns into a grenade when it meets bone. I am looking at the bullets below and would like some input. I am using IMR 4227.

    Winchester Jacketed Soft/Hollow point.

    Speer deep curl soft point

    XTP 240gr or 300gr.
     
  2. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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  3. mrawesome22-250

    mrawesome22-250 Member

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    SAAMI min groove diameter is .431" for 44mag rifle. The only way you are going to realize the true accuracy potential of your gun is to slug your bore and buy cast bullets of .432" or larger depending on your groove diameter.
     
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  4. Axis II

    Axis II Member

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    At the moment yes. My buddy grabbed a Handi rifle in 44mag also and asked if he could barrow my dies and some bullets to see if he can get his to shoot a bit better than factory. With the season coming up so fast I would rather not play with a bunch of stuff.
     
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  5. mrawesome22-250

    mrawesome22-250 Member

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    Hornady rates the 240gr XTP to 1600fps muzzle velocity. My son shot his first buck with a 240gr XTP with HS-6 out of a 20" 1894. I found a accuracy node at 1320fps.

    Buck was 40yds. Buck dropped where it stood. 44cal entrance, quarter size exit. It performed well.

    Don't go over the design limitation and I would not hesitate to recommened it.

    Remember, H110/2400/4227 are the powders that are gonna turn it into a fragmentation round. Dial it back with a medium burn rate powder and it should do well.
     
  6. Axis II

    Axis II Member

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    I only have 4227 on hand and found an accurate XTP load at max with no signs on the primer. I am also looking at these because his rifle seems to like the factory offering. I dont need touching holes on a deer gun, but it is nice.

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1390420454
     
  7. mrawesome22-250

    mrawesome22-250 Member

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    10-4. A max load of 4227 from a rifle barrel is probably hitting 1800fps or more. Expect shallow penetration, explosive fragmentation, and a wounded lost deer. The 240XTP simply isn't designed for such high velocities.

    The deep curls are bonded and will hold together at those velocites, but at .429" diameter and a SAAMI spec groove of .431" minimum, expect horrible accuracy.

    Been there, done that lol.
     
  8. 200Apples
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    200Apples Member

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  9. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    I just dropped two deer with 44 cal 300 gr XTPs out of a Marlin 1894.

    I am a critic of XTPs. Specifically, the 240 gr. I used them in my muzzleloaders years ago and even though I got dead deer, I was unimpressed when they ran better than 200 yds each time. Probably 4 total. I don’t like them going that far when the property line is 100 yds from my stand.

    So back to this season..... I reluctantly selected the Hornady 300gr XTP as my hunting round because it shot the best in my gun....which wasn’t great. 4” at 100. It was Better than 240 Hornady XTPs, American Eagle 240s, and Winchester 240s. I suspect the Hornadys shot better because they are .430 diameter and the Winchester’s and American Eagles are .429.

    I chose factory ammo out of time necessity as I haven’t cast any yet. I have a .432 300 gr GC Ranch Dog mold but have yet to touch it and I presume it will improve my group size.

    The 300 gr XTPs killed both deer just fine but they both ran 50-80 yds each. Both were perfect broadside shots at around 20 yds. So, very close. Both through and throughs. Exit wounds were twice the diameter of entrance wounds and the lungs were complete jelly.

    I have heard folks say 240 gr XTPs don’t like to exit or expand. I would wager the latter is probably at least partially true.

    I saw a picture on another forum of a fella who cut down a .444 Marlin case to 1.8” for use in one of the straight wall states and used a 300 gr XTP on a deer with that. The photo of the bullet showed minimal expansion. I can’t tell you how mine performed because they blasted through the deer. I don’t know why his didn’t blast through the deer with .6” worth of extra case capacity.

    Lack of expansion. Is what I suspect was the problem with my muzzleloader bullets. I never could recover those either.

    People who say 44 bullets dont need to expand can go ahead with that logic. I agree, they don’t NEED to expand. I WANT mine to expand properly and make big holes.

    I also think you need .432 bullets to maximize accuracy. Nearly every jacketed bullet on the market is .429. Hornady is the exception with the 240 and 300 gr XTPs and the 265 gr Interlock which can be hard to find and are, strictly speaking, for higher velocity than 44 magnums generally reach. Even in a rifle. They are for the 444 Marlin mostly as well as maybe a 445 Super Mag rifle.

    300 gr XTPs will work.

    Thanks @troy fairweather for suggesting the use of the Leupold 1-4x20 scope that I already had.

    23E2FA59-4910-449B-A0B1-A05D093F5405.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
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  10. mrawesome22-250

    mrawesome22-250 Member

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    I bet I spent $500 or more on bullets and powders trying to get my 1894 44mag to shoot consistent groups. Then I learned of the idiotic .431" groove spec for rifles.

    Not a single manufacturor makes .431" jacketed bullet.

    And to top it off, the spec is .431" +.004". So a 44mag rifle groove diameter could be .435" and still be in spec. Just rediculous. I wouldn't even consider any 44mag rifle from here on out unless I can slug the bore first. Don't think the guy behind the counter would be too fond of that idea.
     
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  11. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    It is these reasons that I have considered a custom .429 rebarrel for the above rifle.
     
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  12. 200Apples
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    200Apples Member

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    Was that a microgroove barrel?
     
  13. mrawesome22-250

    mrawesome22-250 Member

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    No. Ballard. People think microgroove don't shoot cast well when all it really is they need a larger diameter bullet.
     
  14. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    This is what I use in my .44 carbines, Nosler 240 gr JSPs.....I also use them in the revolvers. For practice and targets I use their fraternal twin, the JHP. Both are extremely accurate outta my carbines and have the same POI with the same POA.

    . 44-caliber-240gr-jsp-sporting-handguntm-bullet-250ct-9d7.jpg
     
  15. twistytorn

    twistytorn Member

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    Zero makes a 240 grain JSP at .431" diameter. They're accurate in my 1894 Marlin with 300MP within a half grain of max.

    I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer with that load.
     
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  16. Hooda Thunkit

    Hooda Thunkit Member

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    Yep. I shoot that Zero bullet from my Ruger 44 Carbine. It's the only thing I shoot jacketed out of, and the the only reason I purchased those particular bullets.
     
  17. 200Apples
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    200Apples Member

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    I would agree.
     
  18. Axis II

    Axis II Member

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    Okay so I am either going with a .430 Winchester JSP or trying a lead bullet. I know I’ve asked before but would a MBC HI tek coated semi was cutter be a good deer bullet?
     
  19. Fyrstyk

    Fyrstyk Member

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    I shoot the 240 grain Remington soft points in my 445 Super mag carbine. Accuracy is around 2" at 75 yards, and it drops deer (with proper shot placement) generally within 25 yards of impact. I have never recovered a bullet, but exit holes are in the silver dollar range on broadside thru the chest cavity shots. You can get these bullets in bulk from Midway.
     
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  20. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    What rifle are you shooting? Curious because I once owned a 336 conversion 445 Super Mag but I know many folks use reamed out Handis or Encore/Contenders.

    Also, I have looked and cannot find 44 cal Remington bullets at Midway.
     
  21. mcb

    mcb Member

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    I use 240gr XTP in both my M92 and M29. Have not killed a deer with that particular bullet yet but the 40 cal 200gr XTP from my 610 and 45 Cal 300gr XTP from my muzzle loader have always done nicely.

    RzW1PS0l.jpg

    13.5 gr of IMR Hi-Skor 800-X under a 240gr XTP gets me 1335fps from the revolver and 1555 fps from the 16-inch carbine.
     
  22. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Gotta say, this thread makes me itch.

    Thousands of us have paired 240XTP’s with Marlin 1894’s for many years with fine results on deer. Don’t overthink it. Yes, the XTP is a common cup and core bullet and as a JHP, it expands pretty violently, sheds some weight, and can separate from the core - just as any cup and core JHP can. Guys only realize these “bullet failures” because they opened up the dead deer the bullet DID NOT FAIL TO KILL, so you really have to ask yourself - is a jacket separation inside a dead deer a failure? I’ve killed on the order of 25 or so whitetails with 44mags punting XTP’s, more with the same bullet in 357, 41 mag, 32 H&R, 45colt, 454 Casull, and 480 Ruger.

    It was not accurate above when stated the XTP is rated for 1600fps, as the Hornady spec, widely available for this line of bullets, reflects expansion between 900 and 1750fps. It was also randomly speculated that a “max load” of 4227 would exceed 1800fps, however, Hornady 10th puts the 240 at 1700fps over a max charge of 4227 of 24.2grn.

    Personally, the Deep Curl has never impressed me - it’s simply a thickly PLATED bullet.

    JSP’s like the Nosler Sporting Handgun, Remington or Winchester won’t expand as violently, so they may be SLIGHTLY less apt to shed mass or separate core from jacket, but the same potential remains for any non-bonded cup and core bullet if pushed too fast into something too hard. I killed a lot of deer with Winchester “White Box” semi-jacketed JSP’s and had more regular jacket separation than I have with XTP’s - but again, the only reason I know this is the fact I stuck my hands inside the dead whitetail and found the bullets.

    If you want a truly reliable bullet, then a Swift A-Frame is the way to go. Unnecessarily expensive to kill a whitetail, when a simple, inexpensive XTP will do perfectly fine, but if you’re really overly-concerned with internet rumor mills, the A-Frame would offer a lot of peace of mind.

    For reference - I’m planning to take my deer in 2wks with a 300XTP pushed to about 1400 from a 44mag SBH.
     
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  23. 200Apples
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    200Apples Member

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    If this is the case, isn't a plated bullet limited to certain velocities? and therefore unsuitable to the speeds most folks use these with? I recall, say, the 270 grain Deep Curl a darling of the 444 crowd. Those aren't leisurely, plated-bullet velocities.

    Your thoughts, my good man.
     
  24. Axis II

    Axis II Member

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    How do you like the 300gr XTP? I am shooting a small Handi rifle. I am not sure the twist rate on that particular rifle either. It concerns me because I had FTX bullets grenade on bone and my buddy shot a doe with a 450 bushmaster and FTX and she turned and he hit the shoulder and she ran about 1k yards with a blown out shoulder. He said the leg was dragging and he could just see a giant mess. I hit a buck with an FTX through the lungs and looks like the speed 120gr of 777 turned that into a grenade. I trust everyone opinions on here so figured I would ask. I have been so busy and didn't realize that I had no bullets and 2 weeks to get it figured out. He did shoot a medium size doe around 70yards with his 44mag rifle last year and Win JSP and it ran maybe 20yards.
     
  25. mrawesome22-250

    mrawesome22-250 Member

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    Your experiences are why we recommend cast bullets. Every jacketed bullet for 44mag is designed for handgun velocities.

    Get a cast .432" bullet and you wont have to worry about poor penetration or grenading bullets.

    gtbullets.com makes a nice 285gr keith bullet.
     
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