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.45 ACP: "As cast" versus sized

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Jumping Frog, Mar 12, 2012.

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  1. Jumping Frog

    Jumping Frog Member

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    Alright, pondering a little laziness by loading "as cast" instead of taking the time to size these bullets.

    Would like your opinion on any pros/cons, or am I simply over thinking this.

    Bullet is the MP clone of the H&G #68 200 gr LSWC, loaded for target shooting (IPDA) at mid range levels (4.0 gr of Clays) using straight wheelweights.

    When I size them, they average 0.4524 inches. Never had a problem with this size or load in multiple 1911's.

    "As cast" they average about 0.002" bigger. They are also pretty round. These sample measurements are two diameter measurements at 90 degrees to each other (along the mold part line and across the mold part line):

    0.4543 - 0.4546 in
    0.4536 - 0.4538 in
    0.4537 - 0.4539 in
    0.4537 - 0.4540 in
    0.4540 - 0.4541 in
    0.4536 - 0.4542 in
    0.4539 - 0.4541 in
    0.4538 - 0.4539 in
    0.4537 - 0.4540 in
    0.4540 - 0.4542 in

    Average is 0.4540", maximum is 0.4546".

    I measured to the nearest ten thousandth because I was using a micrometer instead of my calipers.

    So what do you think I should expect from loading "as cast"? No noticeable difference? Higher pressure? Lower velocity? Sticking bullets? Any change in powder charge? Let's have a little discussion here . . .
     
  2. Cherokee

    Cherokee Member

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    If they will chamber in your gun, then they should work fine. You might not see any differnce. I don't think you need to charge your load any. I know that 454 bullets will not chamber in my 1911's.
     
  3. jaysouth

    jaysouth Member

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    You forgot the most critical measurement. The diameter of YOUR barrel.

    Have you shot any of them unsized yet? How did they do? Dip a dozen in ALOX and see how they shoot.
     
  4. Jumping Frog

    Jumping Frog Member

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    As mentioned, I've got multiple 1911's I am loading for.

    Guess I'll load some and see if they will chamber, first.
     
  5. grubbylabs

    grubbylabs Member

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    Assuming that you have slugged your barrel and they are close to what you would want any way, I would shoot away. I am sure you know this already but I will say it any way just in case. If you slug out at .452 then you should cast and or size at .454 or their a bouts. Some like it even a little tighter. You will just have to see how they go. If you have not visited yet try going over to castboolits and poke around a little. They are quite nice helpful.
     
  6. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Ok if they will chamber. Might take some extra taper crimp.
     
  7. Lost Sheep

    Lost Sheep Member

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    And watch for signs of overpressure

    Those bullets seem a little oversize to me. .001" or .002" over bore size, maybe, but every bit the bullet must be swaged down to fit the bore means extra pressure in the microseconds after ignition.

    Start by loading light charges and looking for signs of pressure. Shoot over a chornograph. Load single rounds in your gun (in case one sticks in the barrel, you REALLY don't want any chance of a double tap as the second round will not be pleasant).

    If you get decent velocity and no signs of pressure, you are probably OK.

    Better still, though, if you don't want to have to size bullets as cast, see if you can get a mold that drops bullest at .452" as cast.

    Lee Precision claims to drop bullets of precise size. I don't know. I have never tried casting bullets, but if I did, I think I would start there.

    Good luck.

    Lost Sheep
     
  8. BinRat

    BinRat Member

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    You're still going to lube them, right? If they're going to go into the lubrisizer, it wouldn't be any extra effort to size correctly, so why not continue to do it.
     
  9. grubbylabs

    grubbylabs Member

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    He could be tumble lubing.
     
  10. Jumping Frog

    Jumping Frog Member

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    Bingo.
     
  11. USSR

    USSR Member

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    Probably won't chamber.

    Don
     
  12. 918v

    918v Member

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    A standard 45 ACP chamber has a .453" throat so if you seat them with a bit of bullet shank sticking out past the case mouth they won't chamber. Also, they may not work in your dies and you will shave lead when seating them. This is certainly the case with Redding dies. My taper crimp die is so tight, a case will stick in it if I use a .454" bullet.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2012
  13. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Size them.
     
  14. Searcher4851

    Searcher4851 Member

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    I reckon I'd be concerned about higher pressure, and inconsistant pressure.
    Inconsistantcy leads to loss of accuracy. I'd size em. also, why work the weapon any harder than you need to. JMHO
     
  15. rsrocket1

    rsrocket1 Member

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    For the small amount of extra time and effort, it's worth it to size them. An extra tumble lube and dry under a fan takes 20 minutes and push through with the Lee sizer is about 1 second per bullet. So in less than an hour you can lube/size/lube over 1000 bullets.
     
  16. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    THe general rule with cast bullets is that oversized is preferable to undersized, so long as you can seat them and they will function in your gun.
     
  17. highlander 5

    highlander 5 Member

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    I would size them to .452 and leave it at that.
     
  18. 918v

    918v Member

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    .002" does not influence pressure enough to make it a consideration.
     
  19. grubbylabs

    grubbylabs Member

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    The usual practice is to slug the barrel and then cast and or size .002 larger than what the barrel slugs at. So just sizing to that might cause leading and accuracy problems.
     
  20. Jumping Frog

    Jumping Frog Member

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    Well, I enjoyed the experiment and it is over.

    My SA and my Colt both digested the oversized bullets without any issue. The Para wouldn't chamber them reliably -- 5 of the first 10 rounds wouldn't chamber correctly.

    As someone mentioned, it doesn't really take that much time to size them, and I will continue to do so.
     
  21. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Different alloys produce a differend diameter as the bullets drop from the mould. Its a wise choice to size them.
     
  22. Striker Fired

    Striker Fired Member

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    I have one stock 1911 that slugged at .453 so I need ,454+ sized do to leading issues,another 1911 slugged at .4505 and the throat is at .4515 so I can't run anything bigger than .4514 or I have sticky feeding. Some barrels will need different sized bullets,when using lead it isn't always possible to just size all to one size a for all 1911's.I now have two boxes of bullets for my .45's, it's just the way it goes.
    Always slug your barrels for lead.
    Plus as 243Winxb said different alloys drop different sizes,I believe less tin in the lead will shrink "as cast" sizes.
     
  23. USSR

    USSR Member

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    Know what you mean. My Series 70 Gold Cup's chamber won't accept .452" bullets, so I have to size them to .451".

    Don
     
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