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45 acp brass: small or large primers?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by nevadabob, Nov 19, 2022.

  1. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    Within my measuring equipment, I can't determine a significant difference between WLP or WSP in a 45 ACP case.

    Rock Island Arsenal GI M1911 RIA 5" barrel

    230 FMJ 7.8 grs AA#5 Lot DM WLP OAL 1.265" taper crimp 0.469"
    13-Sep-18 T = 82 °F

    Ave Vel = 815.4 fps
    Std Dev = 18.02
    ES = 68.22
    High = = 847.6
    Low = 779.4
    Number rounds= 28


    230 RMR FMJ 7.8 grs AA#5 Lot DM small primer brass WSP OAL 1.265"
    taper crimp 0.469"
    10-Jun-20 T = 91 °F

    Ave Vel = 805.6 fps
    Std Dev = 12.56
    ES = 39.38
    High = = 822.4
    Low = 783
    N = 16


    w2d4YUL.jpg

    Powder charge differences create more velocity variances than does the primer.

    FdliUXS.jpg


    IdUGn2k.jpg
     
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  2. FROGO207

    FROGO207 Member

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    These days I load the large pistol primer type. I have a good sized box of small primer brass saved for the day I might run out of large primers. I reload the aluminum casings for one more use where I will loose it.
     
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  3. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    When brass was left on the ground years ago where I shoot I would collect both. I have a bag full of SPP 45 Auto brass I don't use. I have used it for trade brass for guys who load on a Dillon progressive press. They like the SPP brass because they don't have to change primers over after loading 9mm ammo. (I'm told it's a real pain to switch)
     
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  4. lightman

    lightman Member

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    My limited testing shows to be very little if any difference between the two. I can't shoot the difference. I prefer large primers because I'm old school and don't like changes! The main disadvantage as I see it is when loading and priming on a progressive press it will bring things to a stop if you get either one mixed in accidentally. Load and shoot either one with confidence!
     
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  5. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    There is a lot to be said for this take on it. Another advantage of shooting SPP .45ACP is when a LPP case sneaks in. The SPP just goes in and comes right back out. It doesn't get manged and become unusable.

    My preference is SPP .45ACP cases and I have a few thousand that I've collected or been given to be by .45ACP shooters who won't load them. During the current SPP primer shortage, I've taken to loading LPP .45ACP cases because I have 10k Federal Match LPP on hand from when I used to shoot them in my revolver.

    It is good to have choices. Generally LPP cases are easier to pick up on the range because there are more foreign manufacturers who make them, while all .45ACP SPP cases are made domestically
     
  6. thump_rrr

    thump_rrr Member

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    As someone who never bought a piece of common caliber pistol brass get both if you’re picking it up off the ground.
    I haven’t seen an outdoor range where you couldn’t pick up at least a handful of 9mm and 45ACP brass every single time.
    Sometimes you find .40 S&W and 10mm also.
    You can also pick up .223, 308 and even 6.5 Creedmoor most times.

    Pistol brass doesn’t need to be separated by headstamp unless you’re very picky.
    Over time you will accumulate more than you need.
     
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  7. CQB45ACP

    CQB45ACP Member

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    I’ll point out that Fiocchi does also sell 45ACP ammo w/small primer pockets (G.F.L. headstamp) as does Olympic (NPA headstamp) from Greece or possibly the latter is South African. Now I’m not saying they aren’t “made domestically” but is there a Fiocchi or Olympic plant in the USA? I really don’t know.
    94F81BF6-DC33-4F7C-BBC0-2E42F3B20AED.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2022
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  8. lordpaxman

    lordpaxman Member

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    Whatever the press is set up for. In .45, it will not matter.

    Yes it has. :rofl:
    The question really is, when will it happen again?
     
  9. CQB45ACP

    CQB45ACP Member

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    There’s probably another thread running simultaneously!
     
  10. CQB45ACP

    CQB45ACP Member

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    I used to shoot small interchangeably with large and only separated to make priming manageable but now I’m saving my small primers for 9mm.

    But the 45s are sorted by headstamp & standing by ready to go.

    B8F75582-2D0C-4889-B16F-5AB58EA9E9F7.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2022
    conan32120, nevadabob and lightman like this.
  11. Dudedog

    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    I have used both and from some informal testing I would say the same load with a LP is maybe 10fps faster than the SP, not enough to matter.
    If you load anything else with SPs I would get SP brass if I was buying it.
    I scrounge brass from the range after matches so I have both sizes which is nice because then I can use either size primer, depending on what I have on hand or want to use.

    As far as accuracy between the two if there is a difference I'm not good enough to tell.
     
  12. nevadabob

    nevadabob Member

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    Thank you for the offer! Let me know the cost. If my 72 y/o hands start to cry I'll let you know.
     
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  13. nevadabob

    nevadabob Member

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    Slamfire...Thanks for posting those AA#5 chrono results! I've got plenty of AA#5.
     
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  14. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Wish I had eyes of a eagle, I even let them through sorting by hand in the past. Why I built devices that would sort them for me.

    I did my tests years ago with my gun game load (small sample size), the larger flash holes lowered SD’s, not enough to make a difference at the ranges/targets I shoot but the difference was measurable.

    49E7A992-9B49-4111-ACCC-07072F09B28D.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2022
  15. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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  16. nevadabob

    nevadabob Member

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    243winxb....Thanks for sharing the Starline article. Good stuff! Before the maiden voyage with my Starfire I'll stop by Cabela's and pick up 50 rounds of whatever brand. Probably Herters since it is the cheapest. On range day I'll examine the spent brass for firing pin hit. If that's loosey-goosey (off center) that'll steer me towards LPP. But I do have more SPP on hand than LPP.
     
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  17. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    Cost is put them to good use.

    I have to wonder how many people have converted 100% to SPP .45ACP and no longer even collect LPP?
     
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  18. CQB45ACP

    CQB45ACP Member

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    1. Nice pricing.
    2. Sounds like a poll!
     
  19. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    :)

    Back in ‘96/‘97 J&G Sales had the Star PD’s for $59.99 in “Good” condition. For $10 more you could get “hand-picked” which supposedly was better grade. I bought ten, shot than all, swapped parts around to make five that were darn near perfect, took the other five back to the FFL I bought them through and he bought them from me for shelf-stock at a $10 each discount - figuring I had hand-picked the cream and he was buying the sour milk. He sold them within a week and to the best of my knowledge no one complained. I outfitted each one with Pachmyers. I sold them off over the years and the last one the guy wanted the plastic panels, not the Pach’s. So, I got a set of Pach’s free to a good home. Firearms speculation is a risky business requiring foresight and patience. :)
     
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  20. CQB45ACP

    CQB45ACP Member

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    Pachmyer is/was? an interesting company. Made many different things. I have some grips too. But for years I wanted one of their pistol range cases I saw the wealthy guys carrying around. They were cool. By the time I could afford one, I didn’t want one moreover they no longer made them:)
     
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  21. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    I did...and then the primer shortage happened and I had to revert to loading LPP in .45ACP cases to save the SPP for my .38Spl and 9mm loadings
     
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  22. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    Bummer! I hate it when a good plan falls apart. :(
    I have a cardboard box of about a thousand (give or take a few) SPP .45ACP set aside for the day I can’t get LPP. I still have a dozen chamberings that require LPP and I’d rather not have to give up on .44-40, .44Spl or .45Colt revolves just because I like shooting my autos. Having the ability to shoot either/or is like taking out ammo insurance. :)
     
  23. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    I used to be a real Pachmyer fan. I still have the forearm/grip for my Super 14 Contender barrels. It’s one of the pre-rail and pre-bipod models. I didn’t like it when they only shipped the forearms with bipod holes pre-drilled. It was never where I needed it and interfered with my grip when there wasn’t a bipod attached. TThe Gripper pistol grip for the Contender is just about perfect for my hand. Too bad they got bought out and Lyman cheapened the product. :(
     
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  24. nevadabob

    nevadabob Member

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  25. hdbiker

    hdbiker Member

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    I've tested SPP aganst LPP with same load, over a chrono with no noticeable difference
     
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