.45 ACP cylinder for 45LC Colt SAA

[kdave21]

First and foremost, to smaug and strawhat, I would like to thank for graciously offering to lend me a hand in the reloading department.

Also, after all the advice I have gotten here, I went ahead and placed an order for the .45LC cylinder in addition to the .45acp cylinder. The cost was $268 extra. It was a bit to swallow, but the SAA was actually quoted to me for $125 less than what I thought it was going to be, plus I only had to put 50% down, so the "damage" is spread out a bit.

As I told another member, this doesnt mean I wont get into reloading though, the price of any ammunition, 45acp or LC makes it worth a serious look.

I like the idea of the Lee handpress. Keeping it simple is usually what works best for me, especially when I know ahead of time that Im not going to putting thousands of rounds through it per year probably. (Although if it was cheap, and I like it as much as I hope...)

Colt quoted me 140 wait time for the SAA so I have some time to figure it out. I also tried to talk the sales rep into direct selling me a Colt 1991 government but no dice...

 

[kdave21]

Also thanks to everyone else to for helping me hash out some ideas. I had some points of view pointed out to me that I hadn't considered before, which is exactly why I like posting questions on this board.

 

[CraigC]

I still buy .45ACP because I don't like chasing brass. I get a really good deal on .45ACP ammo buying it by the case at $17.50/50rds. I handload sixgun cartridges like .44Colt, .44Spl, .44Mag and .45Colt for $6.50 - $7.00/50rds.

 

[yhtomit]

Once you have the gun in hand, I'd like to hear what you think of each caliber through it, and whether you find any accuracy decrease w/ the .45ACP. The availability of a .45ACP cylinder greatly increases my interest in any revolver (My only revolver is a S&W 625.)

timothy

 

[kdave21]

will do. Hopefully it wont actually take as long as they said, but hey, anticipation makes it all the sweeter....

 

[Leaky Waders]

The 45 Long Colt is what got me into reloading. It's very easy to reload and liberating to not have to shop around for ammo...just go roll your own.

In 45 LC I have a SAA, Vaquero, model 25, and uberti 1873. I'm always looking at more too. When i want to shoot shorter cases...I just reload some 45 schoefield just for the heck of it.

In 45 acp I have several 1911's. If I had a 45 acp cyclinder, I doubt I would really use it that much.

What kind of custom work are you getting done? Have you looked at Nutmeg Sports? They usually have one or two prettied up colts ready to go.

LW

 

[StrawHat]

kdave21 ...after all the advice I have gotten here, I went ahead and placed an order for the .45LC cylinder in addition to the .45acp cylinder...

So tell us more! Barrel length, choice of finish, etc... And photos are mandatory when it arrives.

 

[kdave21]

What kind of custom work are you getting done? Have you looked at Nutmeg Sports? They usually have one or two prettied up colts ready to go.

I have checked with Nutmeg, and if I get an action job, I will get it done there probably. I dont think $150 is too bad for a job by someone with his background. I am going to wait till winter time next year though because a) I dont want to have the gun out during shooting weather b) I want to shoot it first to see if it needs one and c) it will take that long for my budget to recover

I have heard that an action job can help reduce wear on parts. Is this true? Im sure shooting a few rounds without one shouldnt hurt too much though, correct me (someone) if I'm wrong.

 

[kdave21]

So tell us more! Barrel length, choice of finish, etc... And photos are mandatory when it arrives.

Well, pretty plain jane for the most part, which is exactly what I wanted.

Debated for the longest time on barrel length, ended up on 5 1/2 because even though it might almost be negligible, I wanted the slightly longer sight radius than a 4 3/4. Although I love the history and look of the 7 1/2, I was afraid that I would grow tired of the extra 2 inches. Unfortunately I was not able to go out and handle all three lengths. No one anywhere near me had anything for sale like this, let alone for rent. The closest thing I found was one vaquero at the local largest gun store that looked like a 7" (or maybe 7 1/2...not sure). I could have handled it but didnt want to explain to the salesperson that I was handling it so I could go order a Colt on my own. I never really feel welcome in that store, nor do many people I know. Plus I didnt feel confident that a vaquero would balance the same as a Colt anyway.

Finish Blued/case hardened. Since I plan to keep this my whole life (of all my guns, I suspect this one will be the most likely to finish the race with me) I considered how it would wear and look after lots of use. I like the look of a honest worn blued revolver.

Standard Black Eagle grips.

I ordered it without the 175th Anniv. rollmark. For some reason this just didnt settle right with me. It felt too...."commemorative" for my likes. If I had 7 or 8 other SAA's it might have been different, but since this is my one and only, I wanted it close to stock. Only my opinion, Im sure many think it is a cool feature.

I will try to post some pics for all to see. Of all the guns out there, I think the SAA has some of the most beautiful lines and overall looks. Add the swirls and colors a good case hardened frame...it doesnt get much better than that. I have wanted one of these for a long time. In a way Im glad I had to wait so long, makes me appreciate it all the more. I have wanted a true Colt SAA longer than any other gun on my wish list. Now, no one else order a Colt for the next 5 months so they can focus on mine...

 

[yhtomit]

"In 45 LC I have a SAA, Vaquero, model 25, and uberti 1873. I'm always looking at more too. When i want to shoot shorter cases...I just reload some 45 schoefield just for the heck of it."

Huh! Wasn't familiar except having heard the name with this cartridge, and my Cartridges of the World is in storage right now, so, to Wikipedia. Interesting!

"It is similar to the .45 Colt round though shorter and with a slightly larger rim, and will generally work in revolvers chambered for that cartridge ... Many reports indicate that while the .45 S&W cartridge could be used in a gun chambered for the .45 Colt, not every chamber in the gun could be loaded at the same time. Because of the larger diameter rim (.522 inches) on the S&W cartridge, the rims would sometimes interfere with each other when attempting to load every chamber of a .45 Colt chambered gun."

So that's another cartridge that this gun would make possible -- interesting I like cross-platform compatibility ... thanks for the new knowledge.

timothy

 

[CraigC]

I don't want to throw a wrench in the works but I feel you should have all the info possible in order to make an informed decision. Have you looked at US Firearms? USFA produces a SAA that is a replica of the original 1st generation of guns. They are very precisely built on modern CNC machinery, feature case colors by Doug Turnbull and quite frankly, are superior guns to the genuine 3rd generation Colt in every way possible. Most 3rd generation Colt's are over-polished with roll-over edges, dished out screw holes, bolt notches and lettering. While they have done much better in the last couple years, they're still producing .45Colt's with oversized chamber mouths. None of which is present on a USFA. They are done right. To boot, the standard USFA single action, which is comparable to the current Colt in finish level, runs about $200 less. They also do not need an action job, just a spring swap. Convertible cylinders are less expensive at $235. All the money you save over the Colt can be spent on reloading equipment or swanky grips. Also available direct from USFA. Or you could upgrade to the Pre-War model which is head and shoulders above anything ever produced by Colt. It won't have the rampant pony on the side but it is a better gun at less money. It's something to think about.

http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/single-action-revolver.asp
http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/prewar.asp

A shot of my USFA 12/22:

 

[rbernie]

I have a convertible Ruger Bisley in 45LC/45ACP. I love shooting the 45LC rounds, but I also very much appreciate the ability to shoot commonly-available 45ACP ammo. Yes, I reload for both, but there is an intrinsic virtue in having a handgun that can shoot readily available and easily found commercial ammo. If nothing else, I can scrounge a whole lot more 45ACP brass than I can 45LC brass.

I do not think that the rationale for a 45LC/45ACP convertible is limited to a lack of desire to reload - it's also a way to expand the capability of the base firearm. I can see nothing wrong with that, and the cost of the cylinder is far less than the cost of a second handgun.

 

[kludge]

$270 will buy a lot of .45 Colt brass. The difference in ammo cost (to reload) is almost nil.

my $0.02

 

[SAA]

I ordered it without the 175th Anniv. rollmark. For some reason this just didnt settle right with me. It felt too...."commemorative" for my likes. If I had 7 or 8 other SAA's it might have been different, but since this is my one and only, I wanted it close to stock. Only my opinion, Im sure many think it is a cool feature.

I don't know of anyone yet who says he likes the rollmark. I think Colt's made a bad decision to do it on all their stock SAAs this year, but at least the buyer can opt out through the custom shop.

...quite frankly, are superior guns to the genuine 3rd generation Colt in every way possible. Most 3rd generation Colt's are over-polished with roll-over edges, dished out screw holes, bolt notches and lettering. While they have done much better in the last couple years, they're still producing .45Colt's with oversized chamber mouths.

"Rolled edges", "dished out screw holes"? When was the last SAA made that you looked at? I've seen none of this on recent SAAs, at least not on the color cased hardened ones.

Sounds like Colt's may have a handle on the throat issue of late (not that everyone even noticed, realized, or cared about it in the first place):
http://www.coltforum.com/forums/colt-revolvers/36426-new-saa-45-a.html

 

[CraigC]

When was the last SAA made that you looked at?

The New Frontier is the only 3rd generation Colt SAA I'll ever bother with. I would take a chance on the new New Frontiers but that's about it. My `80's gun has the aforementioned signs of over-polishing and oversized chambers. Measuring .457" if I remember right. Which is typical of 3rd generation SAA's. It's a good sixgun and a fine shooter but if USFA made a New Frontier replica, I would never buy another Colt.

"Rolled edges", "dished out screw holes"? When was the last SAA made that you looked at? I've seen none of this on recent SAAs, at least not on the color cased hardened ones.

Like I said they are much better in the last couple years but they still can't get the chamber mouths right, they still cost $200 more and they're still inferior. If Mike's new sample is correct, it's the first I've heard. I've seen several firsthand reports and they all indicate that even those from the last couple years have oversized mouths. Confirmed by John Taffin.

not that everyone even noticed, realized, or cared about it in the first place

Really? Because all the sixgunners I know like to shoot their single actions and they like them to be accurate. It's difficult for a sixgun to be accurate when the chamber mouths are as much as .008" larger than their cast bullets. As evident in post #3.

 

[SAA]

kdave21, congratulations on being the original owner of a genuine Colt Single Action Army whose predecessors made history in the American West. I know you've been wanting one for a long time, as you stated, and you are finally able to purchase one. I went through the same thing and when all the anticipation was finished I was a happy owner of a real peacemaker. Nothing could take that away from me.

The only complaint was that mine (mfg. early 2009) did have oversized cylinder throats (.456"). But, it shot just as well as any other .45 Colt I have ever shot, and, frankly, my groups are the same size (5" 10-shot, one-handed @ 25 yds.) as the one shown in the link I provided in spite of the larger throats. If you do end up reloading you will find it is a simple matter to load bullets that fit your cylinder, and accuracy will be fine.

 

[kdave21]

CraigC- You must have missed my post that said I have already purchased it, so to rehash over the finer points of which one is better does me little good at this point.

To be honest, I never would have been talked into the USFA anyways. A) I want a gun from the same company that made em 140 yrs ago B) Ive heard a lot of 3rd generation complaints on these boards, yet the vast majority of them are from people who say "I would never own them" which I take to mean, they dont own one. Those who have one, especially from the last few years have stated the quality is greatly improved and is truly top notch.

It seems to be an age old debate, and Ive read the debate quite a bit on THR. Im not knowledgeable enough to know one way or the other which is better, I only know what I want. If I had the USFA, I would always feel I had a copy, even it if was a "better" copy. Thats just me, everyone is different. Something tells me the quality will be just fine for my purposes, and Im excited to have it.

Thanks for the input though, I take your thoughts in the spirit of being helpful, and I genuinely appreciate that.

 

[CraigC]

No, I missed th at part. Apologies for the sidetrack. I always feel that lots of folks are under false impressions where Colt's are concerned and like to fill in some blanks before they spend their money. Unfortunately, it's difficult to have an objective discussion with some people, because to imply that Colt may not build the best SAA on the market gets taken personally. As stated, I own both and single actions are my passion. Fortunately, I can look at them objectively and appreciate them all for what they are. Including what I consider to be a more realistic view of what Colt is, what it means and what it doesn't.

I'll shutup now and let you enjoy your new Colt. Luckily for you, they are putting out a very good SAA these days. I'm glad you're buying a new one and not one ten or more years old.

 

[kdave21]

If you do end up reloading you will find it is a simple matter to load bullets that fit your cylinder, and accuracy will be fine.

Can you explain what this means? Are there slight variations available as far as size offerings?

 

[kdave21]

CraigC, -No offense taken, and again, I am thankful for differing opinions, as they have helped guide me to better decisions. I know there are lots of guys on here who have forgotten more than I will ever learn.

 

[SAA]

....to imply that Colt may not build the best SAA on the market gets taken personally.

No implication needed. Colt's makes the only SAA ("Single Action Army"). You will note that not even USFA dares to plagiarize the name.

Can you explain what this means? Are there slight variations available as far as size offerings?

I cast and size my own bullets, and there are different diameters of sizing dies available from which to choose. You want to size the bullets to the throats as well as possible if you want to avoid leading and get peak accuracy for your revolver.

If you do end up casting and don't wish to purchase a sizer, you can just use the bullets unsized. A mould made to throw bullets to be sized .454-.455" (Such as Lyman's 454190 or 454424) bullets will usually cast the bullets at .456" or so depending on the alloy used. I mentioned Lee moulds before as they are inexpensive, but now see that their .45 Colt bullet moulds are made to be .452". However, even a ".452" mould will throw bullets at about .453-.454". If your gun comes with properly dimensioned throats, then the whole issue is moot.

I never buy factory made cast bullets, but if I understand there are some outfits that have .454" or .455" bullets available for .45 Colt loading. Perhaps someone will chime in and mention some.

I hope this helps. It might sound complicated, but it isn't. When the time comes, be sure to measure the throats and ask a lot of questions so you get some guidance on what is a good way to go so you know what to get the first time around.

 

[kdave21]

SAA,
Gotcha, thanks. I have some questions, but I will sit on them for now until I can get it in my hands and see what Im dealing with. Once I have it, I can measure the throat and go from there.

 

[kdave21]

Well, here she is...

Dont know if anyone remembers this thread, but since I have spent hours drooling over all of your single action pics, and since I was asked by strawhat, here is my new girl. There are many like it, but this one is mine...

 

[SAA]

Beautiful! Just beautiful! .....Where is she?

 

[kdave21]

LOL, argghh! I dont know why, but i have had an extremely tough time posting pics, and even logging onto THR lately. I will try it again...