.45 acp Defensive Rounds Created Equal?

[Hatterasguy]

yes it does work fine for the military, but military's around the world are limited to fmj ball rounds. by treaty they are not allowed to use frangible rounds of any kind.

Well I'm not an expert but I highly doubt if I double tap a bad guy in the chest with two .45ACP rounds they are really going to know the difference or care that its Winchester white box 230gr FMJ insted of pricey hollow points.

I'd be willing to bet that if they are still able to move and speak they will be begging me to call 911 and crying for mom.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Hatterasguy: Well I'm not an expert but I highly doubt if I double tap a bad guy in the chest with two .45ACP rounds they are really going to know the difference or care that its Winchester white box 230gr FMJ insted of pricey hollow points.

Well, you're wrong... FMJ rounds do far less damage inside a human (or animal) body than expanding rounds. There's a wealth of information out there demonstrating that fact. People and organizations have shot everything from live goats, to cattle carcasses to ballistic gel with the same results. Police data from actual shootings of people further demonstrate that effectiveness.

I don't know how much real-world difference there is between this low priced hollowpoint and that high priced hollowpoint, but any hollowpoint (assuming that it works and actually expands) is going to do a lot more internal damage than a FMJ.

More damage equates to a greater probability that he won't keep shooting back at you.

 

[Manco]

Well, you're wrong... FMJ rounds do far less damage inside a human (or animal) body than expanding rounds. There's a wealth of information out there demonstrating that fact. People and organizations have shot everything from live goats, to cattle carcasses to ballistic gel with the same results. Police data from actual shootings of people further demonstrate that effectiveness.

There seems to be a common belief among many that ~0.45" is a special bore diameter that is always highly effective no matter what. Y'all can keep your puny 9mm JHP that expands to ~0.65"--I'll take a .45 hard-ball round over it any day of the week because this caliber has stopping power! Right....

 

[Manco]

By the way, on the topic of light versus heavy bullets, keep in mind that heavy bullets are generally longer than light bullets, so if they both expand to the same diameter (hypothetically, for the sake of argument), then a light bullet will be more like a disk while a heavy bullet will still have a substantial "stem" behind the expanded nose. Whatever these bullets may do in ballistic gelatin, when shot into human bodies in real life scenarios, bullets often quickly lose stability and tumble, in which case a heavy bullet with its greater length is likely to gouge a more consistently wide permanent cavity than a light bullet (not a big difference in practice, but I just wanted to point it out for the sake of completeness).

 

[KodiakBeer]

Manco, you may be right about the light vs heavy thing... I dunno... I suspect that if it was empirically tested in gel, you'd get a bigger cavitation wound with the 165's because of the added velocity. I suspect you'd get a deeper wound with the 230's. Yet, a 165 at close to 1,100 fps is going to give you all the penetration you need unless your opponent is in the neighborhood of 400 pounds, in which case you can just run away laughing at him instead of shooting him.

I shoot a Kimber compact with an aluminum frame and when I double-tap with 165 grainers, I shoot faster and the holes are closer together. That's not due to a lack of practice with 230 grain rounds, because 230's are all I shot for years and years. Try it yourself - even with a full sized 1911, you'll notice a difference.