Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

.45 ACP Problems (neck tension)

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by H1500308, May 14, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. H1500308

    H1500308 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    203
    First time loading .45 ACP. After seating the bullet to the appropriate depth, (Winchester 230g FMJ RN) I can still push the bullet back in the case with just moderate pressure with my hand. I even tried this with brass that was just sized and not even run through the expander die.

    I'm under the impression that you shouldn't roll crimp .45ACP so do I need to use the Lee FCD to get the proper neck tension?
     
  2. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,393
    Location:
    Upper East Tennessee
    45 acp should be taper crimped to .468.

    What kind of dies do you have???
     
  3. H1500308

    H1500308 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    203
    Looking on the Midway site, do I need the Factory crimp die or the taper crimp die?
     
  4. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,393
    Location:
    Upper East Tennessee
    Taper crimp...but first...which dies do you have now??? The seater die is what I'm wanting to know...
     
  5. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,393
    Location:
    Upper East Tennessee
    Some brands of dies have the taper crimp built into the seater die...
     
  6. H1500308

    H1500308 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    203
    Lee Dies

    I have an older set of 3 Lee carbide dies - 1985.
     
  7. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,393
    Location:
    Upper East Tennessee
    OK...I'm an RCBS man...so I don't know for sure if Lee offers the crimp and seat in the same die or not...I'm not trying to sound like a smart a$$...but do you have the instructions for the dies...do they mention crimping and seating???
     
  8. H1500308

    H1500308 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    203
    Yes, I've got the instructions and the seating die is a combo seat/crimp die that I believe applies a roll crimp to the mouth. Plus, I find it very hard to crimp well with this setup. I didn't think a roll crimp was recommended with .45 ACP.
     
  9. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,393
    Location:
    Upper East Tennessee
  10. Sunray

    Sunray Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2003
    Messages:
    10,491
    Location:
    London, Ont.
    "...didn't think a roll crimp was recommended with .45 ACP..." It's not. The .45 headspaces on the case mouth. Taper crimp only.
     
  11. 1911user

    1911user Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2005
    Messages:
    1,078
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    What brass are you reloading? (did it come from CCI Blazer Brass and it has a slight concave on the head?)

    All of this focus on what seating die or crimp die should be directed at the sizing die. If the sizing die does not squeeze the case small enough, no amount of crimping is going to help.

    Tension to hold the bullet is established by the inside of the case being a few thousandths of an inch smaller in diameter than the bullet diameter. If this doesn't happen first, it does not matter what expander, seater, or crimper you use.

    Size a case then measure the inside diameter of the neck. Run the case through the neck exander die and measure the inside neck diameter again. Finally, measure the base diameter of the bullet you're using. Report back with all 3 numbers. Take several readings each time to make sure you have a good measurement.

    For rounds that headspace on the case mouth (9mm, 40, 45, 380, etc.), think of crimping as removing the bell at the case mouth only. You're NOT trying to squeeze the case into the bullet, just removal of the flaring you did with the expander die so the bullet would start easily into the case. This is called taper crimping.
     
  12. Texastbird

    Texastbird Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2007
    Messages:
    280
    I've loaded 45s with my Lee dies for years and my seating die will apply a satisfactory crimp if adjusted correctly. However, last year I went ahead and got the Lee Factory Crimp die so I can break up seating the bullet and crimping it into two steps. Works like a charm, and the FCD sizes the whole case to be sure every one will chamber in a Colt that has a tight chamber that I have.
     
  13. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,393
    Location:
    Upper East Tennessee
    Good point 1911user...one of us is right.
     
  14. H1500308

    H1500308 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    203
    Measured a few.

    I'm reloading some older S&W brass.

    Inside case neck after sizing is .450

    Base of bullet is .451, .452

    Didn't measure after expanding because I can work bullet into the mouth by hand after sizing (some requre some effort). I can expand as much as I want with the die but can't size smaller than .450.
     
  15. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,393
    Location:
    Upper East Tennessee
    For reference...mine sizes to .448.
     
  16. 1911user

    1911user Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2005
    Messages:
    1,078
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Do you have any other brand brass you could try sizing?

    At 0.450, the sizing die is not sizing that brass enough. It could be the carbide ring in the sizing die is too large and/or the brass walls are thinner than normal cases. That's why it would be good to try another brand of brass to help isolate the problem.

    I ran into this issue loading 9mm using some newish CCI brass. It had thin walls and would not size enough with my Hornady sizing die. I bought a special undersize sizing die to make sure the 9mm cases were sized enough. I don't sort brass by headstamp so I use the U-die (as they are commonly known) for cheap insurance against bullet setback.
     
  17. Griz44

    Griz44 Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2008
    Messages:
    613
    Location:
    REPUBLIC OF TEXAS, DISTRICT OF ROUND ROCK
    Sounds like you have some worn out old dogs for dies. Cabelas has the 4 die delux carbide set of LEE for 32 bucks. A great investment.
     
  18. H1500308

    H1500308 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Messages:
    203
    woops...I double checked my micrometer and it's actually sizing the brass to .448. I tried some winchester and federal brass along with the S&W and it was all sizing to the same diameter.
     
  19. 1911user

    1911user Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2005
    Messages:
    1,078
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Try seating a few bullets in the other brands of brass and check the neck tension. Sizing to 0.448 should be enough with a .451-.452 bullet.
     
  20. Luggernut

    Luggernut Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2006
    Messages:
    324
    1911user is on the money. I've found similar problems with R&P brass... no problems with any other brass in .45ACP. There is a slight possibility that the sizing die is on the large size of the acceptable tolerance, I've had this happen before with my Hornady die- it may have been a .45 Colt insert or something, that's what Hornady said- they sent a replacement.
     
  21. rg1

    rg1 Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,198
    Location:
    Kentucky
    I've read recently someone having trouble with undersized Win 230gr fmj bullets. Check several bullet diameters and they should be .451". A combination of certain brass with slightly thinner case walls, a sizing die that's on the plus side of specs, or undersized bullets could cause your problem. I've had some brass, including some RP that had thinner case walls and my RCBS carbide sizer didn't size it enough. I could tell when I ran it thru the expander that the expander wasn't doing ANY expanding. If you can't feel your expander die doing anything and the expander plug is correctly sized then you will not get proper neck tension. I bought a Lee Undersized die from EGW that solved the problem on thin cases.
    http://egw-guns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=40&products_id=40
    Note that EGW offer them in 5 calibers and you have to select the caliber. They have them in .45, .38spec., 38 super, 40/10mm, and 9mm. They are supposed to be .001" smaller for $22 and they did solve my problem sizing thinner cases plus they size further down on the case than regular carbide dies which can be a help on brass fired in larger chambers etc.
    No type of crimp will solve a problem with bullet tension. If you don't have proper tension trying to crimp more may actually worsen the problem. Find the cause of inadequate tension first then with the .45 use a proper taper crimp, just to remove the slight belling of the expander die and approximately .001 thousandths more.
     
  22. SDefender

    SDefender Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    58
    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    I have this exact problem with CCI-Blazer brass in .45 auto with about 20% of the cases. All cases of this headstamp also size/bell noticeably easier on my progressive press than the other headstamps I have. The Lee undersized sizing die fixed the problem.

    In my cases, the brass thickness is the same as the other headstamps I have. So I came to the conclusion that this particular headstamp brass is just weaker than the others I have.

    As mentioned earlier, neck tension holds the bullet securely, not the taper crimp.

    I have the EGW die and it is actually a Lee- U.
     
  23. Drail

    Drail Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,278
    Chuck that brass. That is a bullet setback KB waiting to happen! If you can push a bullet deeper before crimping you have a serious problem.
     
  24. MaterDei

    MaterDei Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2003
    Messages:
    3,514
    Location:
    Houston
    Don't do this,

    Until you've tried this,

    If all your brass behaves the same then I agree that you should work more on getting your seat/crimp die set correctly. If that fails then I can vouch for the die that Ridgerunner665 recommends. I have that die and it works great.

    Good luck.
     
  25. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    45,632
    Location:
    Alabama
    RP brass is thinner than most. My first RCBS sizer would not size it down enough. (Other brands were fine) I called RCBS and they sent me another sizer. Problem solved.

    Buying an undersized die from EGW (Lee die) will solve it, but may unecessarily overwork your brass. Call your die maker and make let them fix you up. It's much cheaper.

    A light taper crimp is all you need, and no amount of crimp will make up for lack of neck tension in the .45.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page