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.45 ACP question

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Ironsight, Aug 8, 2010.

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  1. Ironsight

    Ironsight Member

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    Reloading .45ACP into good used brass of multiple brands. Bullet = Hornady .451 XTP Hollow point.
    Guns: Colt Series '70 Govt. Model and New In Box Copy of Model of 1911 U.S. Army
    Problem: Cartridge will not chamber in either gun.
    Measurements:
    Cartridge diameter up to where bullet is seated = .465" .
    Cartridge diameter at mouth of casing = .472" and RCBS Carbide die will not crimp to compress to smaller diameter.

    What am I doing wrong assuming the bullet is in fact .451dia. (I don't have any to measure as all 200 of them are stuck in to brass) Is there a seater adjustment that will do the trick?

    Thanks in advance.

    Ironsight
     
  2. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    What is the OAL?
    Hornady's truncated cone shape requires a bit deeper seating than other brands.
     
  3. loadedround

    loadedround Member

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    Have you removed the case flare from your expander die? I believe that's your problem and you can correct that by giving your loaded round just a "kiss" of crimp from your seating/crimping die. Just adjust your die to remove any flare(case mouth expansion) and you should be good to go.
     
  4. Drail

    Drail Member

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    If you hold a round up to a light and look down the side of the case you should be able to see if the flare has been completely removed by the crimp die. (without measuring it) If you can still se any flare adjust your crimp die to give a little more (screw it further into the press. If you're seating and crimping in one operation with the same die try backing off the die so that it does not crimp and screw the seater in to get the OAL you want and then back off the seater stem and screw down the die until it stars applying a crimp. Use the barrel pulled out of your gun for a chamber checker and see if the round will drop in and fully seat and then fall back out just from its own weight. I prefer to seat in one operation and crimp in another. Also make sure your chamber is squeaky clean with no fouling to hang up the rounds.
     
  5. pcwirepro

    pcwirepro Member

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    As Drail mentioned, have the barrel (not the assembled firearm) at the loading bench when building ammo. If you drop the round in the barrel and get a distinct "clink" and the rounds falls out freely when the barrel is inverted then you're in good shape as far as dia/crimp goes.
     
  6. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    I seat 230gr xtps to 1.225" for my 1911, glock, and xd.
     
  7. rfwobbly

    rfwobbly Member

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    +1 on ljnowell

    Except I'm fairly anal, so I would add these additional pointers:
    • Move the crimp die downward to increase the taper crimp in very small increments.
    • As soon as the rounds start falling all the way into the naked barrel, DO NOT add additional crimp. STOP! More is not better.
    • You'll need 5-8 of your standard rounds to do this because the brass has a slight spring-back quality. So while crimps from (for instance) .473 down to .468 are easy. Re-crimping from .469 to .468 can't be accurately done. So for each die adjustment, test the new setting with a new round.

    ;)
     
  8. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Factory loads em at 1.233ish. (1.230 to 1.235)

    The RCBS carbide sizer has nothing to do with crimp, so I do not understand this.

    Your seater does the crimping, and can be adjusted to give way to much crimp, or the die is defective. Probably not though.

    You need just enough crimp to remove the bell and maybe a hair more. That's all. No more.

    .45 ACP Crimp pics with various bullets.

    A thread that may prove helpful.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
  9. bds
    • Contributing Member

    bds Member

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    First of all, are you sure the case neck flare is causing the chambering problem?

    With the barrel out of the pistol, drop in a newly sized case in the chamber. If it does not drop in freely, check your resizing die adjustment to make sure you are full-length sizing the cases (bottom of the die just kisses the top of shell holder/plate).

    When the sized cases drop in freely into the chamber, then check the taper crimp of the case. On a recent thread, loaded rounds with about 0.47" diameter dropped in freely into the chamber with a "clink". All of the factory and my reloaded rounds measured right around 0.47" diameter.

    If the sizing and taper crimp measurements are OK and your loaded rounds still wont chamber fully, then check the OAL. You can paint the bullet with a marker and spin the round in chamber to see if your bullet nose is hitting the rifling.

    Walkalong's threads are great for determining maximum OAL and taper crimp for your barrels/rounds.

    I hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
  10. Ironsight

    Ironsight Member

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    Thanks for the advice. Careful analysis determined I had set the seater die wrong which distorted the casing at the casing-butt-of-bullet interface as I cam-overed when I seated the bullet. (A no-no according to the instructions) The only way I can make the cartridge fit into the chamber is to run the bullet thru again with a super-crimp which would increase the chamber pressure to an horrific amount.

    I've got 200 rounds to dispose of as there is no way to extract the bullet from the casing.

    Thanks again.
     
  11. pcwirepro

    pcwirepro Member

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    Is there a bulge in the case?

    what's a super crimp? More often than not more crimp adds dimension making the round harder to chamber. Do you have a factory crimp die. Might serve as a crutch on these 200 rounds but I wouldnt rely on it in the future.
     
  12. Ironsight

    Ironsight Member

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    Is there a bulge in the case?
    Bulge is at mid-length of case at the base of the bullet.

    what's a super crimp?
    The crimp at the mouth of the casing bites into and indents the bullet. I am afraid it will result in a chamber pressure of a hand grenade.

    Do you have a factory crimp die.
    RCBS Carbide 3 piece set: sizer, expander and seater.
     
  13. Iron Sight

    Iron Sight Member

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    You dont mention what the overall length of your completed reload is. If it is too long you may be trying to force the projectile into the rifling of the barrel?
     
  14. HOWARD J

    HOWARD J Member

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    Get yourself a Dillion 45acp case gage--then you don't have to
    use your gun to see if the ammo is correct size.
    About $14.00 + frt.
     
  15. Ironsight

    Ironsight Member

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    OAL = 1.2. The cartridge hangs up at the selling at mid casing.
     
  16. pcwirepro

    pcwirepro Member

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    Sounds like they have buckled during the seat/crimp operation. I see two options; tear them all down or run them through a Factory Crimp Die. When I first started reloading I had similar issues with the second hand dies I was using. I bought the FCD for every caliber I was loading. Now that I have figured out how to get perfect seat/crimp out of my standard dies I rarely use the FCD.
     
  17. Ironsight

    Ironsight Member

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    Running them thru an FCD will salvage them? I hope so! I literally manicured the casings before I shoved the bullet into them.

    Who makes the FCD and where do I get one?

    Thanks again.

    Ironsight
     
  18. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    That is the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die.
    At the top it has a tapered sleeve to apply a crimp, at the bottom it has a carbide ring slightly larger than the one in the resizing die to iron out lumps and bulges.
    http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=716704

    At first I thought you had loaded too long and were jamming the jacketed bullet into the rifling. Now it appears you may be too short and are throwing up a bulge in the taper of the case wall. Try the next batch about 1.23" and chamber check before you run off a big supply.
     
  19. rscalzo

    rscalzo Member

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    I use both on all my loads. Dropping the loaded round into the case gage will tell you if the crimp is not sufficient. Too much crimp in a bullet the does not have a cannelure such as plated rounds will distort to bullet.

    Although I don't believe this is the problem, too little belling of the case might be causing a crush.
     
  20. pcwirepro

    pcwirepro Member

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    Maybe. After running a few through the FCD you should check to see if you still have sufficient neck tension. Push the tip of the round on the workbench to make sure it doesn't move.

    Do you buy reloading supplies locally? All of my local shops stock the FCD for all the popular calibers.
     
  21. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Every reloader that doesn’t have money to burn should have an inertial bullet puller.

    Less than $15 from midway.

    [​IMG]
     
  22. rfwobbly

    rfwobbly Member

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    Not to rub salt in the wound or re-state the obvious, but careful analysis of the first 3 rounds could have saved a lot of trouble. Unloading 200 rounds is going to be fairly painful, and a lesson not soon to be forgotten. May I suggest you buy a Wilson cartridge gauge and use that in the future to make critical dimensional checks early and often. They offer a lot of benefit for $16.

    http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=171349

    All the best.
     
  23. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    So were they seated too deep.... sounds like it to me...

    If your all the way down into the taper, I wouldn't try to post size them. Rather, I'd give them a measured tap with a kinnetic puller. Just enough to move the bullet out slightly. Then run them through the seater again.

    I run a 4 hole turret press and am happy to seat and crimp seperately.

    I use the LFCD and I can tell what head stamp the brass is without looking, simply by the feel of the loaded round hitting the post sizing ring.

    Fed. brass is the thickest and hits the post sizer "firmly" every time.

    Win. or Spear brass just lightly touches it.

    Aguila, RP, and CCI brass is the thinnest and doesn't touch at all.

    I don't think that in any instance, you should be smashing a bulge out by post sizing.
     
  24. dc.fireman

    dc.fireman Member

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    And unfortunately, it's one we've all gone through. Bullet pullers are worth their weight in gold. If you stick around here for awhile, you'll find that this forum is a wealth of information. You just learned a critical one, and like me, learned it the hard way. Walkalong, rcmodel, bds, JimKirk, and sooo many others have taught me that, as excited as I am about reloading a new caliber, only do 10-15 of something, because it really is a PITA to tear them down. Whichever brand of puller you buy, try and get an extra cap if they have one - they seem to break at the most inconvenient time, as they're plastic. Good luck. I've never used the pullers that mount into the press, but with that many rounds to pull down, it might not be a bad investment.

    -tc
     
  25. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I am new to reloading .30-30.

    I ordered some RCBS dies. (Cause it's hard to go wrong with RCBS)

    I very carefully set up the sizer a little at a time, loaded one (Yes, 1) round, and shot it at the range over the chrono. (2093 FPS)

    I now have two pieces of range brass prepped, sized and primed for the next step. The two cases weigh 137.3 & 139.5 Grs.

    Assuming it goes well, I'll most likely load 8 to 10 RP range brass that weighs about the same as the factory RP OF brass I will be loading for my son to hunt with. Brass shot in his gun. (Well, mine, but I bought it for him to hunt with) They will be shot over the chrono and on target.

    I caught a great deal on a Bushnell 3 X 9 X 40 Elite 4200 which is now on the gun. (Old pic from right after I got it. I installed Leupold two piece bases and Leupold medium rings as well to mount the Bushnell.)

    Anyway, the moral of the story, as dc.fireman pointed out, is never be afraid to load a small sample when starting a new caliber.

    Added pics with new mounts. rings, and scope.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 11, 2010
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