.45 ACP round for carry weapon on archery Bear hunt

[goathollow]

I am going on a spring archery bear hunt and I intend to carry a sidearm as a just in case kind of thing. I currently own a Glock 21 in .45acp and I don't intend to purchase a new handgun for this one time use. I understand that there are better calibers for bear protection so please save the advice to go to something bigger.

Given that I will be carrying a Glock 21 in .45acp (+ P) what I would like some advice on is whether a hard cast bullet would be better than a bullet like the Barnes TAC-XP, or even a XTP round. I've read a lot from guys who say to go with the heavy hard cast lead for penetration so I've been leaning that way but before I go buy a $45 box of ammo I'd like to hear some others thoughts.

 

[phonejack]

Keep in mind the bullet has to go thru thick course hair, think hide or thick skull before it can start to "do something".

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Just did the research sending a coworker into bear country with a .357 mag. For bears you'll need penetration. A hard cast lead SWC is your best bet with a handgun against a bear. Do not choose an expanding/hollow point for bear.

VooDoo

 

[goathollow]

phonejack: I do understand that bear has thick hide and coarse hair, and a fair amount of muscle and heavy bone too. There in lies the reason for my question..

Thanks!

 

[TRX]

I'm a fan of the .45, and I carry one for CCW. But... a bear is a job for a rifle of appropriate caliber, particularly if you're backing up someone with a bow.

 

[WYO]

I carry a Glock 30SF when archery hunting in black bear country. They are all around, and we even have some trail cam pictures of some standing outside our cabin the last few months. I have tested and keep a supply of Buffalo Bore +P 255 grain Hard Cast (chronographed at 923 MV out of the gun) on hand, which should punch through any bear in my woods. With that said, I usually just keep the gun loaded with the Speer 230 grain Gold Dots that I carry on pavement. The black bears around here aren't monsters.

 

[WYO]

Here's my best picture.

 

[627PCFan]

I would go 230gn FMJ. I want penetration first and foremost, not a shallow wound because the HP opened up like a parachute....

 

[BigBore45]

I would use the buffalo bore 255gr hard cast bullet too. These are made specifically for what you want, defense against bears.

Here you go: https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=214

 

[JR24]

Depending on case support you could look at some 45 super. I was thinking of running an aftermarket barrel and possible spring change (not sure if that's necessary with Gen 4 RSA) in my G21 as a possible bear protection rig.

Something like Underwood's 255 grain hard cast at around 1075 FPS seems like it'd probably do the job.

http://www.underwoodammo.com/45super255grainhcfnboxof20.aspx

YMMV.

 

[goathollow]

I'm a fan of the .45, and I carry one for CCW. But... a bear is a job for a rifle of appropriate caliber, particularly if you're backing up someone with a bow.

Yes, I know that, or maybe you didn't see that part of the original post. This is for ME to carry not to back up someone else. I will already be carrying a bow so carrying a shotgun (preferred back up for bears) or a rifle just isn't practical.

 

[goathollow]

I carry a Glock 30SF when archery hunting in black bear country. They are all around, and we even have some trail cam pictures of some standing outside our cabin the last few months. I have tested and keep a supply of Buffalo Bore +P 255 grain Hard Cast (chronographed at 923 MV out of the gun) on hand, which should punch through any bear in my woods. With that said, I usually just keep the gun loaded with the Speer 230 grain Gold Dots that I carry on pavement. The black bears around here aren't monsters.

Thanks! Helpful info. I didn't clarify in my original post that the hunt is for black bear in Idaho, not grizzly or brown bear in Alaska.

 

[goathollow]

I would use the buffalo bore 255gr hard cast bullet too. These are made specifically for what you want, defense against bears.

Here you go: https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=214

Thanks, helpful info. And thanks for the link; that is exactly what I was considering.

 

[goathollow]

Depending on case support you could look at some 45 super. I was thinking of running an aftermarket barrel and possible spring change (not sure if that's necessary with Gen 4 RSA) in my G21 as a possible bear protection rig.

Something like Underwood's 255 grain hard cast at around 1075 FPS seems like it'd probably do the job.

http://www.underwoodammo.com/45super255grainhcfnboxof20.aspx

YMMV.

Thanks, I will check them out

 

[OregonJohnny]

Another vote here for the Buffalo Bore 255 grain +P.

You'll want to make sure they feed well in your gun, though. I tried some through my full-size stainless S&W 1911, and they had a tendency to nose dive into the feed ramp and hang up, since the 255 grain bullets (which are meant for .45 Colt revolver rounds and have a crimp groove) are seated very deep into the case. They averaged 940 ft./s from my 5" barrel. A .452 diameter hardcast flat nose bullet weighing 255 grains and going 940 ft./s from a 5" barrel usually goes by the name: .45 Colt. And people don't usually put down the .45 Colt as a poor choice for black bear defense. But put those same specs into a .45 ACP case loaded into a semi-auto, and all kinds of people say it's a bad choice for the role. People hear ".45 ACP" and think of a round nosed 230-grain bullet moving at 850.

If that round doesn't work well in your gun, another good choice would be Buffalo Bore's 230-grain +P FMJ flat nose. These feed well in all my .45's, and I think they average around 975 ft./s from a 4-5" barrel. Basically, with defensive (not hunting) rounds out in the woods, you want straight line penetration. That means a heavy flat nose bullet.

You can certainly do a lot worse for black bear defense than either of these 2 Buffalo Bore offerings in a quick-shooting semi-auto with 13+1 rounds on tap. And if you can't have a Glock 20 (10mm), I believe your Glock 21 is the next best thing available when you want a rugged, reliable, all-weather semi-automatic sidearm when out roaming the woods.

 

[BlindJustice]

230 gr. quality JHP like
Federal HST / Hornady XTP / Speer Gold DOt
they all go about 900 FPS and reliiably expand

Yeah thick skin and a layer of fat, you want the
.45 big entry hole so they bleed

I'm in SE Wash. near Lewiston ID. fwiw
Guy just SW of Pullman shot and killed a
wolf sunday A.M. Fish & Game took the
carcas Hey this is Cougar Country
i.e WSU Cougars heh


Randall

 

[goathollow]

Another vote here for the Buffalo Bore 255 grain +P.

You'll want to make sure they feed well in your gun, though. I tried some through my full-size stainless S&W 1911, and they had a tendency to nose dive into the feed ramp and hang up, since the 255 grain bullets (which are meant for .45 Colt revolver rounds and have a crimp groove) are seated very deep into the case. They averaged 940 ft./s from my 5" barrel. A .452 diameter hardcast flat nose bullet weighing 255 grains and going 940 ft./s from a 5" barrel usually goes by the name: .45 Colt. And people don't usually put down the .45 Colt as a poor choice for black bear defense. But put those same specs into a .45 ACP case loaded into a semi-auto, and all kinds of people say it's a bad choice for the role. People hear ".45 ACP" and think of a round nosed 230-grain bullet moving at 850.

If that round doesn't work well in your gun, another good choice would be Buffalo Bore's 230-grain +P FMJ flat nose. These feed well in all my .45's, and I think they average around 975 ft./s from a 4-5" barrel. Basically, with defensive (not hunting) rounds out in the woods, you want straight line penetration. That means a heavy flat nose bullet.

You can certainly do a lot worse for black bear defense than either of these 2 Buffalo Bore offerings in a quick-shooting semi-auto with 13+1 rounds on tap. And if you can't have a Glock 20 (10mm), I believe your Glock 21 is the next best thing available when you want a rugged, reliable, all-weather semi-automatic sidearm when out roaming the woods.

Thanks for the good info on the ammo. I looked at the FMJ FN on the Buffalo Bore website. Is the lead in the FMJ FN the same as the lead in the 255 gr hard cast? If yes, then it seems to this non-expert that the FMJ might penetrate better. Or is there a significant trade off with the lighter bullet weight.

I agree a 10 mm would be a better choice but as you noted I don't have a model 20 and I don't intend to buy one just in case I am the 1 in 100,000+ hunters who gets chased by a bear. I've never bear hunted before and I probably won't again....at least not for a long time so buying a pistol just for bear protection doesn't seem like a good use of limited resources.

Likewise, this is a guided hunt so when we're using dogs I presume there will be someone backing me up with a rifle or shotgun. When I'm hunting bait I will be in an elevated stand; and while black bears are adept tree climbers I suspect none would be all that keen to the idea if he/she was being plunked in the head by 255 grain .45 acp rounds. I just want to use the best ammo for the job that I can do with a .45acp.

 

[OregonJohnny]

Is the lead in the FMJ FN the same as the lead in the 255 gr hard cast? If yes, then it seems to this non-expert that the FMJ might penetrate better. Or is there a significant trade off with the lighter bullet weight.

No, not the same. The 255-grain is a hardcast lead. The 230-grain FMJ flat nose will be a softer lead covered in a copper jacket. The FMJ flat nose is essentially the same as a standard jacketed round nose handgun bullet, but the flat nose allows it to penetrate in a straighter line than a similar round nose.

I just want to use the best ammo for the job that I can do with a .45acp.

Then the Buffalo Bore 255 grain +P bullet is probably the way to go.

 

[WYO]

Here's a BB 255 gr. HC +P milk jug penetration test performed by a guy who has killed some big stuff with handguns.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4990017/1

 

[gunsablazin]

I'd keep it simple, and load it with 230gr FMJ, good penetration, besides, whats that Glock hold 13-14 rounds? I really don't see a reason to get too carried away, it's pretty unlikely you'll need it anyway.

 

[goathollow]

I'd keep it simple, and load it with 230gr FMJ, good penetration, besides, whats that Glock hold 13-14 rounds? I really don't see a reason to get too carried away, it's pretty unlikely you'll need it anyway.

Good point! Although I'd prefer to only have to use one, not the entire clip. And, I can afford a couple boxes of new bullets....just not a whole new gun

 

[goathollow]

Here's a BB 255 gr. HC +P milk jug penetration test performed by a guy who has killed some big stuff with handguns.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4990017/1

I believe that about sums it up!

Thanks!

 

[BlindJustice]

O.P. - My shooting buddy has Glocks. He handloads and uses
cast bullets - for those cast bullet rounds he has Lone Wolf
aftermarket barrels with convntional rifling. Stock Glock barrels
shoulld not be used with cast bullets - accuracy sufers etc.

and no way FMJ

R-

 

[WYO]

Cast bullets and true hard cast bullets are two completely different critters. Hard cast lead bullets are harder than traditional copper jacketed bullets. I have an aftermarket barrel for my Glock, but I do not bother with it for the Buffalo Bore loads. I do use it for soft lead bullets.

 

[BlindJustice]

I've got 300+ rounds of .45 Auto Rim using
Leadhead hardcasst 200 gr. SWC @ 1,000 FPS
out of my S&W 625 5" Bbl. but it leads up the barrel/gun
I've fot the same load in .45 ACP for my 1911 a S&W and
it doesn't lead up so much, but the chamber is tight and
I don't consider them reliable in that platform. I've got a
Commander that is more forgiving..

The Black Bear Load for that gun is
Barnes XPD solid copper HP 225 gr @ 940 FPS

The 1911 is carried with the Federal HST 230 JHPS
I'm happy to wear in bivouc/camp or...

There's a NorthWest outdoor sports program on radio
out of Spokane WA and / or Lewiston ID and they had
a guest of an outfitter down by ENterprize/Joseph OR
Bear or Elk, guided in and hosted so they will pack out
whatever yah get. Sounded nice.

Randall