45 acp

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I know that the 230 Gr FP in Hodgdons online data with a 4.8 Gr max is seated shorter/possibly deeper than the OP's 230 RN at 1.250 OAL, but I am very surprised that the 4.7 Gr load would not cycle the gun.

What scale are you using?
 
What scale are you using?
That's what I am suspecting too and suggested verifying the scale with check weights.
And was your scale verified with check weights? Perhaps you are using lighter powder charge than what you think you are using?

The gun is not cycling to next load.

I've had sparks coming back at me. The gun fires the round but doesn't seem to be able to slide theaction on its own
So are you getting this with all powder charges?

If so, sounds like powder charge is not high enough to push back on the slide to cycle.

I am curious about "sparks" coming back. Are these amber sparks?

If you are just feeling things pelting your face, that could be fouling/unburnt powder coming back. If so, you could be seeing the muzzle flash and feeling the pelting to think sparks are coming back.

I had similar happen when developing 45ACP with 200 gr plated RN and W231/HP-38. 5.0 gr charge started to cycle the slide and produced OK accuracy but blew fouling/unburnt powder at my face. When I increased the powder charge to 5.2-5.3+ gr, no more pelting of face and accuracy improved.
 
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If you have barrel with shorter leade like my Sig 1911 with no leade and sharp start of rifling, I need 1.260" or shorter with some bullets.
 
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well i think i found one problem. when checking the hornady digital scales i have i wondered if the scales were out of wack. so i put the 10g weight back on it to check and do the zero check. then checked the powder level in one of the older rounds i did before. it came back as 3.1grains of powder. so did 10 rounds each at 4.5 4.5.4.7 of titegroup and will try it again at the range tomorrow. fingers crossed. it works this time
 
found one problem ... hornady digital scale ... zero check. then checked the powder level in one of the older rounds i did before. it came back as 3.1grains of powder
Good thing you didn't load them heavier and this is why we recommend the use of check weights to verify the scale.
And was your scale verified with check weights? Perhaps you are using lighter powder charge than what you think you are using?

so did 10 rounds each at 4.5 4.5.4.7 of titegroup and will try it again at the range tomorrow. fingers crossed. it works this time
I do believe we will have better range report. :D

And you meant 4.5, 4.6 and 4.7 gr?
 
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Over the course of the thread, the OP has made the following statements:

"but still not sure how much powder to use"

"hornady dies"

"i also use a hornady book"

I believe many of his problems are due to a lack of information from Hornady. My relatively recent 9th edition Hornady Manual has no information on how to establish or work up powder charges, does not address how to establish cartridge overall length / bullet seating depth, and says nothing about a proper crimp for a straight wall auto cartridge.

With the info in this thread, along with verifying his powder measure accuracy, hopefully he is well on his way now.
 
Over the course of the thread, the OP has made the following statements:

"but still not sure how much powder to use"

"hornady dies"

"i also use a hornady book"

I believe many of his problems are due to a lack of information from Hornady. My relatively recent 9th edition Hornady Manual has no information on how to establish or work up powder charges, does not address how to establish cartridge overall length / bullet seating depth, and says nothing about a proper crimp for a straight wall auto cartridge.

With the info in this thread, along with verifying his powder measure accuracy, hopefully he is well on his way now.
Yes I think the OP is about there now. Sounds like the last issue was the scales not being in calibration giving him under powdered loads. There has been a lot of input to help the OP get through the reloading start up. I think the OP might be struggling a little with the English language and the terminology associate with reloading but hopefully we have gotten him through the majority of his struggles.
 
Thank goodness the scale was off in the undercharge direction. It could just as well been off in the overcharge direction with much more serious results than failure to eject. Attention to detail cannot be overemphasized for reloading. Always calibrate your scale and check it with a known weight before counting on it to accurately measure powder charges.
 
I use a Hornady LNL autocharger. One day it started acting really weird. I left it off for a few days and when I turned it back on and recalibrated it seemed fine. I started double checking on another scale for safety reasons. I've noticed between checking on two different scales the auto charger usually runs .01 lower than my other scales.
 
I started with a cheap digital scale included with my kit. Didn't like the constant drift, so I bought a beam scale. No problems since.

chris
 
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Digital scales are quick to use and can be accurate, but there are several things that can go "wrong" too easily. I always check my digital scale against my beam scale to check for a faux pas. I have a digital scale with less than 25 hours on it and I have to calibrate it at the start of each session and "tare" often...
 
Digital scales are quick to use and can be accurate, but there are several things that can go "wrong" too easily. I always check my digital scale against my beam scale to check for a faux pas. I have a digital scale with less than 25 hours on it and I have to calibrate it at the start of each session and "tare" often...

I always use a beam scale FIRST.

I just picked up a new Hornady beam scale at Academy for $25. That makes 5 beam scales for me.
 
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I personally would not reload without 2 scales going at the same time. My lyman beam scale is the go to scale but I have the small frankford arsenal digital for back up to confirm my load.
 
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I personally would not reload without 2 scales
No. We have been through this already many times. Stop posting using two scales can verify each other.

Two watches/clocks synchronized won't ensure they are telling the correct time because they could both be wrong.

Instead, a set of check weights and a scale that can accurately and consistently verify the sensitivity and repeatability of the scale down to the resolution of .1 gr will ensure your powder charges are accurate.
 
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I have to disagree with LiveLife's last post. If two watches were widely different in quality and technology, the tried and true watch would be used as the "standard".

None of my beam scales depend on "modern" technology or construction for precise measurements (Chinese made cheap digital scale innards?). The major factor in my beam scales "technology" is gravity. My gravity scales have been trouble free since I got my first scale in 1970, all worked 100%, but the three digital scales I've owned, those using modern electronic technology have all been problematic and two died early deaths. So I set up my powder measures with my beam scale, put a charge measured on my beam scale on my digital (having calibrated it before each session) and use that reading/weight, often different than the beam scale weight. During the session I have to "tare" my digital scale often and replace the pan after each powder charge and double check zero.

Personally I don't really care what tools anyone uses to reload, (they can even use balance scales with rocks as check weights) but newer reloaders often look in on reloading forums and could get a skewed idea of what works best, most accurate and safely for them.

And definitely not saying LiveLife's post was wrong or misleading, I was just commenting on "two watches"....
 
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Maybe I'm off on this but here is my opinion. My beam scale takes forever. I weigh every charge. I tried using a powder measure to drop charges and came up with very inconsistent results. If I used a beam scale to measure every powder charge it would take me 8 hours to load 50 rounds. Maybe that was exaggerating a little bit. Either way for the most part the Hornady works good and I can I live with .1+ or -.

I spend a lot of time reloading for a small return. My reloads are better than factory box junk. I don't have to constantly recalibrate my scale or keep zeroing it out. I honestly don't even calibrate it with the check weights very often and my stuff is consistent as the day is long.

My inexperienced opinion tells me there are two types of people reloading. Old school and new school. Those who don't want to change as technology evolves and those who are new or dislike change.
 
there are two types of people reloading. Old school and new school. Those who don't want to change as technology evolves and those who are new or dislike change.
And why this subcategory of THR is titled "Reloading" but also "Handloading". For many of us, reloading is a hobby or means to produce cheaper ammunition. For some of us, reloading is a passion in pursuit of greater and greater consistency of finished rounds and smaller and smaller groups.

I am old school and likes beam scales and dial calipers and vintage USA made tools but open to recognize that technology improves and like fuel injection vs carburetor, newer technology may be beneficial in improving the consistency of reloading.

If two watches were widely different in quality and technology, the tried and true watch would be used as the "standard"
Precisely.

To verify if any watch or clock is telling accurate time, regardless of brand/cost and whether mechanical or quartz movement, we need to check it against a known standard.

Same for any measurement tool, we need to check it against known standards to see if the tool is accurately reading measurements whether beam/digital scale or dial/digital calipers at the weight range or measurement range being used as wear can take place at different parts of the tool. I learned this from many THR members who are machinists and they told me the same when I posted my Ohaus 10-10 beam scales (I have two) were "accurate enough" to verify other scales and in the myth busting thread, we found out the digital scales were more precise with higher resolution using Ohaus ASTM Class 6 check weights down 1 mg (.015 gr).

Same for calipers when Walkalong suggested I buy gage blocks/pin gauges to verify accuracy of my caliper measurements for posting 9mm bullets being sized different from .354", .355", .3555" and .356". And he was correct as my trusty dial calipers (I had two that I used to verify each other) used for reloading for decades were worn and had .001"+ play and I replaced them with a new FA dial calipers that had no play and accurately verified not only pin gages but feeler gages.

And whether new or used, it doesn't matter as new scale could have been damaged during shipping or something could have happened to used scale (Like mount base being out of level or batteries draining, etc.) to alter the accuracy of readings.

When I received a brand new milligram resolution "Analytical Lab" digital scale for the latest myth busting thread, how did I know what the sensitivity/detection of scale was? I didn't until I used check weights to verify the scale and found it was sensitive/repeatable down to 5 mg (.08 gr) but as member Nature Boy (Who competes at 600-1000 yards) pointed out, being able to measure to the kernel of powder is beneficial and I am able to detect addition of Varget kernels, depending on size (As close up picture showed different lengths and cut angles), additional kernel weight could vary by 1 mg to 2 mg (.02 gr to .03 gr) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...lab-scale-for-120.873830/page-2#post-11627511

And perhaps we are being too picky or OCD about verifying our reloading tools with standards. I mean, .1 gr or even .2 gr variance should be "good enough" for reloading, right?

Well, load data for many faster burn rate powders list start/max charge range of .5 gr, so .2 gr variance could affect group size, that could "tolerance stack" on top of OAL/bullet seating depth variance and add to any bullet setback after being chambered.

Chances are, for general purpose range blasting ammo, sweating the details down to .1 gr or .001" may not matter but this is the "High Road" and I am simply paying forward information my bullseye match shooting mentor and many seasoned/match shooting THR members imparted on me to share with other THR members, just in case they need or want more consistent match grade ammunition.

I like having choices in life.
 
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Can you tell the difference between 4.4gr and 4.5gr in a 45ACP handgun??
Yes I can see it on target but I am betting in this specific example the tools being used are not of the precision level to actually produce those results.
 
No. We have been through this already many times. Stop posting using two scales can verify each other.

Two watches/clocks synchronized won't ensure they are telling the correct time because they could both be wrong.

Instead, a set of check weights and a scale that can accurately and consistently verify the sensitivity and repeatability of the scale down to the resolution of .1 gr will ensure your powder charges are accurate.
I get into this fight to often and when experience comes up I just laugh. What is the value of safety and accuracy.
 
No. We have been through this already many times. Stop posting using two scales can verify each other.

Two watches/clocks synchronized won't ensure they are telling the correct time because they could both be wrong.

Instead, a set of check weights and a scale that can accurately and consistently verify the sensitivity and repeatability of the scale down to the resolution of .1 gr will ensure your powder charges are accurate.

I guess I should have been clearer for my reason of using two scales. When I first used an electronic scale I had it set on grams instead of grains. Now that could have been a major problem but upon checking same load with my beam scale I knew something was terribly wrong and corrected the problem. I use two scales just to make sure I am not making a major mistake not to verify the accuracy of either scale. I use check weights for that.
 
I guess I should have been clearer for my reason of using two scales. When I first used an electronic scale I had it set on grams instead of grains. Now that could have been a major problem but upon checking same load with my beam scale I knew something was terribly wrong and corrected the problem..

That doesn't even make sense......considering that as little as 5 grams = 77 grains.
 
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