.45 Colt vs .44 Mag

[Colt Smith]

Thinking of picking up a Ruger Blackhawk or Super Blackhawk for pig/boar hunting.

What are the pros and cons of either 45 Colt or .44 Mag? I doubt the pig will know the difference but I might.

Also, should I look for an old model or new model Blackhawk and why?

 

[mr.trooper]

Unless you plan to reload all of your ammo, go with 44 mag.

standard pressure 45 colt is a waste in a Ruger revolver - even non cowboy factory ammo will be 1/2 the power of entry level 44 mag. For hunting hogs at any distance, the extra punch is a good thing.

 

[Fishrising]

Same reason I just picked up a 44mag, but I went Colt instead of Ruger.

 

[Ruger4Life]

44 mag will do everything the 45 colt can do, and there is more variety in ammunition and reloading options with the 44. Plus reloading components are cheaper if you go 44.

 

[Colt Smith]

Great! .44 Mag it is.

So what about pros and cons of Blackhawk vs. Superblackhawk and old model vs. new model?

 

[leper65]

You already decided, but here's another vote for the .44 Mag. There isn't much factory heavy stuff for the 45 Colt...PMC used to load a 300gr Speer JSP to 1200 fps but it was discontinued.

Check out the Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter, I have one in .45 Colt and really like it. The regular Blackhawk handle is too small feeling for me.

 

[Colt Smith]

More info please

I've seen the Hunter models. I like them too. Not sure I'll be using a scope though. At this point I'm just curious about the differences between the old and new models and the regular and "Super" Blackhawks. I'm not the biggest fan of the Bisley models.

I think all the Blackhawk variants are plenty tough. I know there are differences in trigger guard shape, top rib on the barrel, hammer and grip shape on the Bisleys, etc. Is there any difference in smoothness of trigger pull? Build quality, fit and finish? Sights? Grip size? Does the barrel rib on the Hunter models add significant recoil-taming weight even if used without a scope? These are some of the points I'd like someone with first-hand knowledge to address.

 

[walker944]

What about the Redhawk?....my personal favorite of the 'hawks.

 

[Hunt480]

I have to say that Ruger Super Blackhhawk Bisley Hunter model has got to be one of the best lookin SA's available today. I think I shall purchase one soon...

 

[Colt Smith]

I realize everybody has their own favorites. Can anyone speak to the specific questions I asked?

 

[slk]

I'm currently trying to choose between the 2 myself, so here's my current take.

45 colt:

Pros:
It's classy
It's a quintessential cartridge
Can be loaded up to 44 mag levels (some say beyond, others say less than, Hodgdon's website says less than....)
Lower pressures (For whatever it's worth)
Slightly larger diameter

Cons:
You essentially have to reload if you want to make full use of it
If you own non ruger 45's, you have to be very careful where you put your magnumized loadings.
fewer bullets and such available
The difference between "the gun can take it" and "the gun was designed to take it"

44:
Pros:
It's a quintessential cartridge
lots of choices in bullets
heavy hitting factory ammo readily available
44 guns supposedly tend to be manufactured slightly better (dunno how applicable that is in a blackhawk to blackhawk comparison though)
better sectional density at a given weight

Cons:
Not terribly historic
slightly smaller diameter
Sounds scarier in court if you ever use it to defend yourself against a human attacker


Some additional reading if you want:
http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm
http://www.chuckhawks.com/high-pressure45.htm
http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-42402.html
http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=5
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell44OverWeight.htm

Also, a search here on thr will reveal a couple more threads on this topic, and a google search, of course, reveals even more. My own non-expert opinion is that the 44 has a slight edge in terms of biggest boom and general use. But the magnumized 45 is a little more classy.

I really wish someone made an affordable 454 single action.

 

[Colt Smith]

slk,

Thanks for that perspective. I agree with you on all points. I have other guns for SD so this would be for hunting purposes. So, although .45 is my personal fave, I think due to the reasons you mentioned .44 Mag is the more practical. I like .44 Mag too so no problem there. At this point my curiosity was about the pros and cons between the features, fit, finish, grip frame size, trigger smoothness, weight and other objective and subjective differences between the different Blackhawk variations. I am interested in the 7.5 inch barrel lengths in NON-Bisley models. I'll see what I can dig up on Google.

 

[slk]

And in regards to your other question, I think I'd personally prefer a new model blackhawk. I think the transfer bar system was/is a good idea and the advantage it confers is undeniable (able to safely carry 6 rounds instead of 5). Although if an OM is sent in to ruger then they'll install a transfer bar system.

The elimination of the half and quarter cock positions on the NM doesn't bother me as I'm not concerned with colt authenticity, and being able to load rounds with the hammer up is somewhat advantageous. Or at least slightly safer. Slightly.

Also NM's are well, newer. So they can be purchased new, and it should be easier to find used ones that are in good shape.

 

[slk]

Oops haha, I'd somehow missed that post/posts, I guess that's what I get for interneting late at night. I'm afraid I don't know anything about the blackhawk variations, other than that there are far too many of them.

 

[Colt Smith]

That's ok. It gave you the opportunity to post links to some very interesting articles. Thanks!

 

[Ruger4Life]

Super Blackhawks are very strong revolvers. Bill Ruger introduced the Blackhawk model in the 1950's to handle the new powerful 44 magnum cartridge. The Blackhawk was practically designed around the cartridge, much the same as the later Redhawk. Lots of extra metal and extra strength were included that Colt SA's and their clones did not have. You will do well with any Ruger Revolver that is 44 magnum, including the Redhawk and Super Redhawk line. Strong, rugged and reliable and accurate revolvers. 44 magnum has more versatility available in ammo and reloading options. Plus, 44 special cartridges are just plain fun to shoot in the 44 mag revolvers!

 

[Evergreen]

45LC is better because you can shoot it interchangeably with .454 and .460 loads in the same gun.. Ok, some may think that is not a big deal, but I just bought a S&W 460 and thought it was a major benefit; well, at least for me. I personally like that I can shoot hot loads from a X-frame gun and have minimal recoil. The hot 44 loads kick hard in my S&W 629 w/ 4" barrel. I suppose it has the benefit of being a lighter weight N-frame, but it beats up the center of my hand after about 30 or 40 rds.

 

[jrenscore]

If you're buying with the intension of keeping, you might want to really consider the Super Blackhawk Hunter (Super Redhawk is my personal fav.). That way, if and when your eyes start failing, you have a better platform for mounting optics. Plus, when using open sights, the extra barrel length gives a better sight radius. The weight certainly helps tame recoil. Take a second look at the Bisley model. The folks I run with really like it better when shooting hot loads.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I vote for the .45 Colt. I shoot both a Ruger Blackhawk (5 1/2" barrel) and a Colt New Service (7 1/2" barrel.)

First of all, a standard factory load in .45 Colt will do about anything you need to do. Believe it or not, a 255 grain bullet at 800 - 850 fps will kill deer as far away as you can hit them -- and the bullet will sail right through them.

Next, while higher velocity will give a flatter trajectory, with handguns hitting is more a matter of your ability to hold than trajectory.

Third, I shoot a lot -- and full-charge loads are no fun to shoot. I typically load a 255 grain Lee Wide Flat Nose bullet with 12.5 grains of HS 6, for a muzzle velocity of around 830 fps and punish a 5-gallon bucket out to 135 yards (which is farther than I'd shoot at a deer with open sights.) That's a mild-recoiling load that's a pleasure to shoot. Heavier loads are no fun!

Fourth, if you don't handload and you're not a millionaire, you don't shoot a lot. To really get the benefit of a large bore handgun, you need to shoot about a thousand rounds a year, or more. In other words, with factory ammo you'll spend about twice the cost of the gun in ammo each year. Reloaders have the option of shooting mild "cowboy" loads, standard loads, or loads that will match the .44 Magnum from the .45 Colt.

 

[Leaky Waders]

I read this earlier and wasn't going to respond because Vern had expressed the 45 long Colt so well and I agree.

Also, in todays market place, it's easy for a non-reloader to find from mild to wild loadings in 45 Long Colt. The SASS has really brought the 45 Long Colt back on the shelf with multiple loadings available online.

+1 for the 45 Long Colt...since 1873 and still thumping varmints and bad guys.

 

[savit260]

Worth a mention on the New Model vs. Old Model.

On the new model with out the half cock, the charge holes are not properly aligned with the the loading gate cut out when the cylinder clicks into place. This means that you need to be careful when loading or unloading to NOT rotate the cylinder until it clicks or you will have to go all the way around again to get that chamber loaded/unloaded. Kind of a pain. I hear this has been remedied with the New Vaquero.

There are modifications to cure this, such as a free spin pawl , or an after market half cock hammer.

Personally, I like the "carry 6" .45 Colt. and the fluted cylinder of the New Model, and the lower hammer of the Super Black Hawk as well as the half cock alignment of the Old Model.

Had to get some custom work done to get all of the above, but love it to pieces!!

 

[Colt Smith]

Thanks everybody. Lots of food for thought. I handled a 10.5" Super Blackhawk today. Seemed very well built. No Surprise there. I'll be looking for the 7.5" barrel version but the gun felt very comfortable in the hand. Some of your arguments have opened up my consideration of the .45 Colt again. I'll have to read some more research on that subject. The way it looks now I'm leaning towards the Super Blackhawk Hunter (Non-Bisley). But I also like the regular Blackhawk with fluted cylinder. I know, I know, get one of each right?

 

[CraigC]

Excellent post by Vern Humphrey. His post was spot-on. Particularly this part "...if you don't handload and you're not a millionaire, you don't shoot a lot."

Handloading is the only way to shoot these guns enough to become proficient. This is true of any of them but particularly the .45Colt and anything bigger. While it may sound elitist, there's a big dfference between proficiency and just making noise at the range.

However, I prefer the .44Mag and I'll tell you why. There are always a lot of folks repeating the "more performance, less pressure" stuff and fortunately for .44 lovers, it's simply not true anymore. John Linebaugh penned his famous "Dissolving the Myth..." article over 20yrs ago. Things have changed. Mainly, bullet selection for the .44Mag. When both cartridges are loaded to their accepted maximums, the .44 still maintains a 100fps advantage over the .45 with all bullet weights and also a slightly higher sectional density. So the only real advantage the .45 has is the slight increase in diameter. The downside is that due to 140yr old specifications, the .45 is plagued with oversized chambers and nobody but USFA and Freedom Arms can seem to get their chamber mouths right. Colt's, replicas and Old Model Rugers tend to be oversized, later model Rugers tend to be undersized but can go either way. While .44's tend to shoot very well right out of the box.

On game, no critter will notice the difference. Pick which one you like best.

 

[Trad Archer]

I have a few 45s but they are Colt SAAs so I can't run them as hot as Rugers. Having said that, I will say that a 250 grain bullet going going 900 fps is plenty enough.

 

[Dr.Rob]

The hooked trigger guard of the old super blackhawks is hard in your fingers with heavy loads. The ten inch models can be better balanced with an oversized pachmeyer grip.

The 6 and seven and a half inch Blackhawk/Vaquero frames are handier, but many people hate the stock grips. The fluted cylinders cut down the weight.

The Super Black Hawk Hunter is what I'd buy for hunting and I have all three: Blackhawk, Super Black hawk and SBH Hunter (not a Bisley).

I've known guys to hot rod 45 Colt in the Rugers, but they get nominal improvement over 44 magnum.