.45 Colt vs .44 Mag

Status
Not open for further replies.
Don't know what it is about the .44 mag that riles people up. I always thought the .45 Colt was an inferior cartridge, but I was shown otherwise on this thread. From now on I will be cautious and get reliable info before making any judgment on any cartridge and bullet performance.

Also, I do not understand those that think a .45 colt will have difficulty with a Cape Buffalo, regardless of Seyfried's experience. John Linebaugh's experiments with the venerable .45 Colt are very enlightening. Penetration and KO power is awesome.

.Now, to the .44 magnum. I do not believe it is inferior to the .45 Colt. They are very close in performance.

Do a Google search on Larry Kelly (founder of Mag-na-port) who was the first to take the African Big Five with a handgun. Guess what caliber he used? Yup, the ole .44 mag.

J.D.Jones, owner of SSK, also killed some mighty big critters with the .44 mag. Some of them as big as a house.

A lot of it comes down to shot placement and steady hands. Miss the vitals by a fraction of an inch and you are in deep doo doo. IMHO.
 
I also look at the ft. lbs. of energy in any given load.
Energy is the key in any ballistic chart.
Craig-you say the .45 Colts diameter is only a small
bit larger in diameter.That my friend is crucial when it comes
to energy.What would cause more damage?A pencil tip
stuck in ones chest,or a bowling ball shoved through the
same place?Extreme sure,but that x-tra 100 FPS you give
the .44 Mag means nothing unless it brings with it the
energy that the .45 already produced simply from
the x-tra diameter.So- for every little bit of weight
you put into each bullet .45 or .44 it makes the bullet
longer.Each builds it's mass.The .45 maintains that .452
diameter,while the .44 maintains that .430 diameter.The
.45 just keeps gaining mass over the .44 mag as the bullets gain
weight.(get longer).Bottom line?FPS mean something alright.
Energy brings the meat to the charts.Apples to apples?
The .45 colt is right there.
 
If you do a Google search on .45 Colt vs. .44 Mag, you will find many threads like this. This has been debated extensively with very similar well stated arguments. Reading these debates helped me make an informed decision about what my preference was. I currently own a .45 loaded at .335gr. For a rifle, I also shoot a Marlin .45-70 loaded at .405gr. In the lower 50 States, I can and will shoot anything...

I have shot and would love to own a .44 Mag someday, but it's not a priority financially because it is just too similar to my .45 and there are other guns that round out my collection better... which brings me to my point.

IMHO, once you get beyond the myths of the modern .45 Colt, the arguments about the effectiveness of each cartridge get into fairly fine details and splitting hairs. Neither cartridge can be declared the outright winner unless you state some sort of criteria and often that criteria can itself be disputed on the grounds that it is too myopic or subjective.

At least as far as I can tell, it's a virtual tie if you exploit the possibilities in a modern firearm like the Ruger. Both are brilliant cartridges and nicely punch a hole through any prey. The reality is, if the .44 Mag is questionable for a dangerous or large animal, I doubt that any argument on the .45 Colt is going to suffice (or vice versa) if you really care for your life. In other words, you are going to really want more of a safety margin and will be looking for a substantial step up. For me, that substantial step up is where the .45-70 starts to be my first grab if it is handy.

Last I heard, hogs haven't killed to many two legged animals carrying either caliber. Buy one, buy both if you can afford it... shoot them a lot. Both are going to definitely be more than adequate for the job.
 
I also look at the ft. lbs. of energy in any given load. Energy is the key in any ballistic chart.
Click to expand...
Energy is meaningless. Energy does not kill and it is FAR too dependent on velocity. So your post is a little contradictory. You are discounting the 100fps velocity advantage (the biggest contributor to energy) but espousing diameter which doesn't even enter into the energy equation. Fact is, if you look at the charts including TKO numbers, energy and OGW, the two are so close it is not even worth mentioning. Although the slight advantage that does exist on paper goes to the .44Mag.

On flesh, no critter will ever notice the difference.

Again, I'm not arguing that one is better than the other but that one is NOT better than the other. Each has its own virtues.
 
Energy is everything.No energy?No nothing.Energy makes things
go bang.Energy is what blows things up.I now am sorry to say that maybe
I am arguing a point with a closed and radical made up mind.
This topic,however contraversial has come to an end on my part.
I have to agree with Captain Joe and just say get the one you want.
It will be impossible to make a wrong choice,since both are fine
weapons.
 
Last edited:
I automatically disregard the arguments of those who remain stuck on kinetic energy in a discussion about big bore revolvers. For it is easy to assume that they do not have a true understanding of how these big, heavy bullets work. All it takes is five minutes looking at ballistics tables to understand that if the lowly 45Colt blackpowder load consisting of a 255gr cast bullet at 900fps and producing a measly 450ft-lb's of energy will kill any deer that walks just as dead as a 165gr .30-06 with vastly higher energy figures, then maybe something else is at work other than energy. Which, as I stated, is FAR too dependent upon velocity. Something which the big sixgun does NOT have an abundance of.
 
I automatically disregard the arguments of those who remain stuck on kinetic energy in a discussion about big bore revolvers. For it is easy to assume that they do not have a true understanding of how these big, heavy bullets work. All it takes is five minutes looking at ballistics tables to understand that if the lowly 45Colt blackpowder load consisting of a 255gr cast bullet at 900fps and producing a measly 450ft-lb's of energy will kill any deer that walks just as dead as a 165gr .30-06 with vastly higher energy figures, then maybe something else is at work other than energy. Which, as I stated, is FAR too dependent upon velocity. Something which the big sixgun does NOT have an abundance of.
Click to expand...
You're correct -- the rules are different for big bores. A standard Colt .45 load will, based on my experience, sail right through a white tail deer, and kill just as quickly as a 150 grain soft point from a .30-06. No question about it.

For most hunting situations, once you reach 240 grains of bullet and 900 fps of velocity, extra mass and velocity doesn't give you very much.

Now if you must hunt cape buffalo or Kodiak bears with handguns, well, that's a different stories.
 
I agree and standard weight bullets are all I have an actual need for. I only play with the heavyweights, well, just to play. Were I heading into grizzly country or Africa, then I'd stock up on 330's or 355's.
 
If velocity/energy is everything, then how did those old buffalo hunters of the 1800s destroy the vast herds of bison on the American prairie? Those buffalo rifles where shooting big chunks of lead at comparatively sedate black powder velocities (resulting in relatively puny energy numbers), but those big ol' tough bison still seemed to turn up dead more often than not. Big bullets at moderate velocity move the world... Velocity gives you flatter trajectory, but that's all.
 
Hogs don't kill two-leggeds? Well maybe not kill, but my friend's dad got gored pretty badly by wild hogs on a hunt in Kentucky years ago. I don't know what one properly calls a herd of boar, but they came over a hill and the hunters ran out of ammo...and were left scrambling for the trees.

My friend's dad was a very big man and didn't climb trees well...hence getting his arm getting gashed open by a tusk. He nearly bled to death. Personally, I use and reload for 45 Colt in 335 grain, but don't think there are any flies on the 44 Mag. My brother and nephew go on Alaska hunts and always carry Ruger Redhawks in 44...along with an Ithaca 12 ga loaded with Brenneke slugs.

Stay safe, Space Fans.
 
Not really quickening a dead thread but it seems a reasonable place to post these, for what they are worth.

Ruger SBH .44 magnum 4 5/8" barrel

Mostly sunny. Temperature was 91 F. Wind was negligible, Humidity was, well, it's always high here

SBH .44 Magnum 4 5/8" bbl

.44 Magnum
WQWW
Lee .430 mold 310 gr FN
Gas Check
Re-size to .429
TL before and after resizing as above

New Starline Brass .44 Mag
CCI No. 350 Primer
H110 N/A

ProChrono Digital results:

1361
1352
1338
1337
1346

AVE VEL 1346

H 1361
L 1337

ES 24*
SD 10

*too high

OM Vaquero .45 Colt 7 1/2" barrel

.45 Colt
WQWW
Lee .452 mold 300 gr. FN
Gas Check
Re-size to .452 just to add check
TL before and after resizing

New Starline Brass .45 Colt
CCI No. 350 Primer
H110 N/A

ProChrono Digital results:
H 1343
L1318
AVE VEL 1324

Heavy Flat Nosed bullets in both revolvers.

They were similar in velocity, and bullet weight; both were reasonably accurate in both revolvers.

Frankly, they were both strong loads. Ruger trigger guards do not mesh well with my trigger finger. My fingers are much like sausages and the trigger guards on both guns leave me a bit bloodied. But for me, the fun of dropping the hammer on a powerful round of my own doing makes it worth it. Guns ate them mostly fine.

.452 at 300 grains and an AVE VEL of 1324

.429 at 310 grains at an AVE VEL of 1346
 
Nice work. Wouldn't the .44 Mag be a bit faster out of a 7.5" barrel?

IIRC H110 LIKES longer barrels and I don't think the 300 grain bullets are heavy enough to build maximum pressure in a 5" barrel.
 
The cast bullet was a 310 grain gas checked in the 4 5/8" SBH. It reached a velocity of 1324 fps over a small average and measured at 5 feet from the chronograph. H110 shoots just fine from the .44 I shot it from, in that it suited me. Accuracy was good and minimal leading. Was everything optimized or did I develop loads that suited me? The latter. Heavy for caliber bullets suit me even more but the mold I am presently employing produces something on the order of a 300 grain projectile.

These are STRONG loads. I weigh close to 300 lbs and I can feel them. 310 grains moving at ~1346 fps and 300 grains moving at ~1325 fps. are train stoppers in my world. If I need more I'll call for air support. . .
 
I can't imagine even needing those. 260 grain bullets at those velocities would be just fine. Irony is it might be easier to get the same velocity, better accuracy, using the heavier bullets you are using then the 260's.
 
Thanks for the replies, I read this thread a while back and found it enlightening. I have added nothing, really. Just wanted to contribute to it as I thought some might find my small effort interesting. I'm glad you did, amigo.

Speculation is good if followed by empirical observation and then if it's repeatable, maybe we got something. :) I can de facto do what I typed. I have done it and repeated it. I prefer higher magnitude bullet weights and large 'meplats' with HC. 310 grain is a large bullet in a ".44 caliber". Admittedly 300 grain gas checked isn't THAT large for the marvelous .45 Colt cartridge. I understand that the end result from the mold I have is around ~315 grains but I did NOT weights any. I will.

For me I'm like old Buriden's ass, paralyzed with indecision. I decided, after much back and forth, to cast for myself, using heavy for caliber bullets, medium to quite hard alloy, focusing mostly on big bore revolvers. I may try hog hunting at some point.

"Needing" does not enter the equation (my quip about needing air support was a jest). I survived many years never owning a SBH of .44 caliber. For me, it's about wants. I just enjoy what I'm doing and wanted to share some honest data. It is what it is. I am no ballistician, amigo. As I'm sure you know everything can be tweaked, I think old Homer had it right, "First contemplation of the problems of Interior Ballistics gives the impression that they should yield rather easily to relatively simple methods of analysis. Further study shows the subject to be of almost unbelievable complexity."
 
Last edited:
I like both calibers very much. The reason I originally bought .44 mag for my hunting revolver was because factory ammo is great for hunting. I wouldn't have to reload if I didn't want to. The fact that I cast and load was irrelevant, other than it allowed me to shoot for less.
Average LGS/Wally World .45 Colt ammo is anemic. It's not even loaded to the original black powder specs(which are pretty impressive).
If you don't reload, .44 mag is a better hunting cartridge (unless you don't mind paying Buffalo Bore prices for hunting ammo).
If you reload, you can get lots of power from either.

Feral hogs take a lot of killin'. They're not like your grandpa's domestic hogs that will let you walk up to them and put a .22 LR pill in their brains. They are ill-tempered and often aggressive. Couple that with their built in body armor and you have a tough customer.
I believe it's Larry Weishuhn who calls them "Poor mans grizzly bear".

BTW, I own both calibers and neither would be my first choice for shooting a big porker. That's why I bought a .444 Marlin and some 300 grain loads.

Right now, I'm agonizing over whether to order a NMBH in .44 Special or .45 Colt.
 
If I can hit one reasonably well with either of those rounds a chorus of "Nearer My God To Thee" will be heard.

If it doesn't die I call my wife to throw it a beatin' ;)
 
Either round is a great one. Handloading is the best way to wring the most out of either. Either one can launch heavy, hard cast, flat nosed bullets. They both have good hunting loads available, if you're willing to pay.

The big plus with the .44 mag is that it's a high pressure round from the beginning, and as such, all guns made for it are designed for high pressure loads.

That's not a problem if you're buying a Ruger.
 
Read all of this guys stuff under Writings and then decide.
Click to expand...
As long as you read it with the understanding that it was written almost 30yrs ago and that much has changed since then. Most notably, .44Mag bullet selection. Much of what is in those articles touting the .45Colt (at "Ruger-only" levels of 32,000psi) as significantly more potent than the .44Mag is simply no longer true. If it ever was.
 
Where the real stuff starts is finding a .45 Colt that is strong, without having to buy a custom. Remember, Linebaugh wants to sell you on the .45. He doesn't make much on a .44, since you don't really need him.

You don't much need him if you buy a .454 BFR. The major failing of the .45 Colt was it was only available in well made guns like FA 83 or BFR, that could handle the full house loads Linebaugh is suggesting, or his own custom made guns.
 
First, assuming similar (not identical) pressures in the .45 (i.e., not comparing original black powder equivalent loads), I'm curious as to whether those preferring the .44 over the .45 for "ballistic" reasons would then also prefer the .41 over the .44. After all, the .44 is really a .43, and therefore 2 calibers smaller than the .45, while the .41 is 2 calibers smaller than the .44. I like the .41 and .45, but not so much the .44, but I've never been one to run with the crowd.
 
I'm curious as to whether those preferring the .44 over the .45 for "ballistic" reasons would then also prefer the .41 over the .44.
Click to expand...
Then why not the .357??? The difference is balance. Balance between the cartridge and the guns that chamber it. The .44Mag is better suited to reach its full potential in the available .44 platforms. The .45 really only begins to come into its own in five-shot guns that can be loaded to 55,000psi or more. Even then, all you're gaining is velocity and ferocious recoil. All that velocity does it flatten trajectory. It does not appreciably improve killing ability. At that, if you're going with a five-shot, which may be a custom Ruger or FA, you're really better off stepping up to a .475 or .500. Because a significant increase in diameter and bullet mass does increase killing ability.

Because the .44 has a far better bullet selection and is still a bigger hammer. At the upper end, the .44 can utilize heavier bullets with higher sectional densities.

My point is not that I prefer the .44 because it is ballistically superior but only that the touted difference between it and the .45Colt are greatly exaggerated. My point is that the two cartridges are ballistically very, very similar, yet some folks regurgitate statements from Linebaugh's article that would indicate a significant advantage to the .45Colt.
 
"My point is not that I prefer the .44 because it is ballistically superior but only that the touted difference between it and the .45Colt are greatly exaggerated. My point is that the two cartridges are ballistically very, very similar, yet some folks regurgitate statements from Linebaugh's article that would indicate a significant advantage to the .45Colt."

Starting to smell abit around here. I smell a strawman argument.

Linebaugh's article was designed to show the potential of the .45 Colt at a time when the .44 Magnum was the clear king, and he was trying to sell custom revolvers. At that time, Ross Seyfried had no ideal of the potential of a tight chambered .45 Colt. The .454 was out there, but Casull was after a 300 grain bullet, or lighter, going hyper-velocity for
longer range handgun hunting with his .454 FA 83's. The 83's were 2000 dollars even back then, and that was a time when 5000 dollars would buy you a Shelby Cobra, a REAL Shelby Cobra. 3000 dollars was a Mustang.

Linebaughs' guns came in at half the cost of a FA 83, yet gave you his excellent skills in custom gunsmithing the gun. A great bargain at the time.

Real .44 fans should be thanking Linebaugh for that article. He pushed the envelope of the .45 Colt, bullet weight wise, which then pushed people to cast, and make heavier bullets for the .44 Magnum as well. Factory loads followed suit.

Linebaugh was also trying to sell the .45 Colt as the world's most powerful handgun at the time. In his custom guns, loaded beyond .454 levels, with heavy bullets he made good on his claim. With maximum loads the .45 Colt CAN go where others can only dream of: 360 grains at 1550 fps. The Casull didn't have the bullets available, and the .44 doesn't have the case capacity for such loads, with such bullet weights.

All that said, the .44 can probably be pushed to 340's at 1350 fps. That's enough. What won't go down to that load? My guess is a full cylinder would even cure a brown bear problem. That said, if you are in that kind of animals
area, I would go as CC said, to the bigger calibers, with much heavier bullets
and more velocity.

To argue Gary Reeder's side:
Why do you need anything more then a 350 grain bullet at 1350 fps, if that's enough to kill an elephant?

To be real: both the .44 and .45 are about equal with heavy bullets, and, at 1350 fps or so, are enough for anything. If it takes more it should probably be a rifle.

Both the .44 and .45 work, brass is cheap, so are bullets, and they are really the limit of sensible handgun shooting.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

C
  • Locked
Curious about folks pros/cons on the 41 vs 44 Sp or even 45 LC.
2 3
Replies
69
Views
4K
CraigC
CraigC
T
  • Locked
Did Ruger ever make a 45 Blackhawk 3.75"
Replies
4
Views
429
TennJed
T
R
  • Locked
Considering a 41 mag, 44 mag, or 45 colt
2
Replies
47
Views
2K
murf
murf
S
  • Locked
45 Colt Vs 44 Magnum
2
Replies
27
Views
5K
Gunhamr
G
P
  • Locked
.44 Mag or .45 Colt. accuracy and reach ONLY
2 3
Replies
54
Views
6K
.44 Associate
4
Back
Top