45 Hardball- doesn't need to be fancy

[Slamfire]

Yeah well I was trying to ask a serious question. Puzzling how a piece of lead even if plated traveling 800fps can hit the ground without considerable damage. That all thanks

I was not certain if it was an honest question or someone needling me. So thank you for an honest question. Why some bullets survive undamaged except for rifling marks is a big: I don't know. Lots of things happen that are absolutely beyond explanation. I am sure you can think of a few: why some individuals have won state lotteries twice. Might be a three time winner out there. Or how drooling idiots get elected to the Senate and the Presidency. Not everything is understandable, but apparently based on statistics, every thing is possible.

Maybe I should sell those bullets as lucky charms. I am aware of a WW2 era Japanese "lucky" tradition: the thousand stitch Senninbari cotton sash. To enhance the luck, more superstitions were added in, specifically women relatives spent hours sifting sacks of milled rice to find an unhusked grain. An unhusked grain of rice was considered lucky. For extra luck for the menfolk, female relatives would sew the unhusked grains of rice into the Senninbari. It was well meant.

 

[Slamfire]

I don’t know. Sounds suspicious to me. Are you suggesting people shooting paper targets at a club range might not be using +P+ FMJ ammo?? Inconceivable!

Some people at the range are just lucky to hit planet earth, never mind the target in front of them!

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Some people at the range are just lucky to hit planet earth, never mind the target in front of them!

(Geo quietly raises hand and skulks away)

 

[Walkalong]

Yeah well I was trying to ask a serious question. Puzzling how a piece of lead even if plated traveling 800fps can hit the ground without considerable damage. That all thanks

I have dug out plenty of old 230 Gr FMJ out of dirt banks that looked nearly like new, they're tough.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Yeah well I was trying to ask a serious question. Puzzling how a piece of lead even if plated traveling 800fps can hit the ground without considerable damage. That all thanks

A couple of lifetimes ago a buddy of mine quit school to join the Marines. As part of his going away party he offered up his ‘58 Rambler station wagon as a target. He wanted to see what really happened if you shot the gas tank of a car. He drove it out to the swamp on some public land and where it got stuck is where we all commenced to shooting; Ed first, of course. He shot it with a .45 auto and the 230’s literally bounced off that steel body. They left big divots but only one from the first magazine made a hole. We all were kids and had no clue how tough those old cars were. The bullets were a little dinged up where they hit but other than a shiny flat spot they looked pretty good.

9mm’s punched holes but didn’t make it much past the body panels. It took my magnum Blackhawk to punch through to the gas tank. It leaked. That’s all. It just started leaking gas into ground. We ended up having to make a Molotov cocktail to get it going. That was a good time.

 

[CQB45ACP]

A couple of lifetimes ago a buddy of mine quit school to join the Marines. As part of his going away party he offered up his ‘58 Rambler station wagon as a target. He wanted to see what really happened if you shot the gas tank of a car. He drove it out to the swamp on some public land and where it got stuck is where we all commenced to shooting; Ed first, of course. He shot it with a .45 auto and the 230’s literally bounced off that steel body. They left big divots but only one from the first magazine made a hole. We all were kids and had no clue how tough those old cars were. The bullets were a little dinged up where they hit but other than a shiny flat spot they looked pretty good.

9mm’s punched holes but didn’t make it much past the body panels. It took my magnum Blackhawk to punch through to the gas tank. It leaked. That’s all. It just started leaking gas into ground. We ended up having to make a Molotov cocktail to get it going. That was a good time.

The old myth busters show had something similar as I recall. Never did explode. Best thing that could’ve happened to a rambler. Flesh isn’t steel either.

I was curious about lethality distances before I was a reloader and saw a ballistics report on several handgun calibers. I’m sure 45 and 9mm were included and think 38spl was too. I was surprised at the long distances. I haven’t read them yet but I did a search on THR last night and found several old threads.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I have dug out plenty of old 230 Gr FMJ out of dirt banks that looked nearly like new, they're tough.

I don’t doubt it but it does surprise me.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

The old myth busters show had something similar as I recall. Never did explode. Best thing that could’ve happened to a rambler. Flesh isn’t steel either.

I was curious about lethality distances before I was a reloader and saw a ballistics report on several handgun calibers. I’m sure 45 and 9mm were included and think 38spl was too. I was surprised at the long distances. I haven’t read them yet but I did a search on THR last night and found several old threads.

In theory, a standard velocity .22LR is potentially lethal at up to 1/2 mile. My thinking is you would have to be one of the unluckiest people on the planet to take a fatal wound from a .22LR-SV half of a mile from the shooter but it could happen and I do recall reading some old reports about it happening - but it has to have been a fluke. A .45Auto at a hundred yards I can wrap my head around but a mile? I don’t want to meet the trigger operator that lucky or be the bullet stopper that unlucky. Nope.

 

[CQB45ACP]

In theory, a standard velocity .22LR is potentially lethal at up to 1/2 mile. My thinking is you would have to be one of the unluckiest people on the planet to take a fatal wound from a .22LR-SV half of a mile from the shooter but it could happen and I do recall reading some old reports about it happening - but it has to have been a fluke. A .45Auto at a hundred yards I can wrap my head around but a mile? I don’t want to meet the trigger operator that lucky or be the bullet stopper that unlucky. Nope.

Exactly! I can hardly see 100 yards anymore much less hit anything. A month or two ago a young fellow stopped a mall shooting from 40yards with 8/10 shots. In a range at paper targets I’ll give it a go but in the wild?

 

[Palladan44]

Update:
Didn't set up the chrono, I probably should have.

All 3 of the 4.5gr, 4.8gr, and 5.1gr rounds cycled in both guns. All were approximately the same accuracy wise, however I just shot off hand, two-handed at 7 or 8 yds. All were in the same ballpark of a racquet ball sized ragged hole at that yardage (I only hung one target)

I started out with about 14 rounds of Rem UMC 230 gr FMJ to get a feel for my off hand accuracy for the day (since it's been awhile I regret to say since I've last shot my 1911s) These also were in the same ragged hole, about 2.5" in size at 7 or 8 yds. Regular 45ACP rounds ive been accustomed to for decades. Brass chucked around 10' to my 4 o clock.

Following up after the Remington UMC factory ball, the 4.5gr w-231 loads seemed quite light. Also, the projectiles were easily visible flying through the air. I'd be surprised if these broke 700fps. Brass trickling about 3-4' away. Lots still on the table in my lane.
4.8gr of 231 Loads were also light, but getting a little more snap...not much more. Brass for each of these within 5'.

The WW-231 @5.1gr were a little closer to the UMC factory loads, but still not as snappy. I'm thinking these are still below 800fps. But they are sure great to shoot. Brass chucked about 6-7' away.

I'm quite happy with the results on this. I may try a few more at 5.3 or 5.4 of W-231, but honestly don't see a need. I'll likely stay at 5.1gr as these are perfect to shoot.

The takeaway is
1-Take the time to set up the chrono with every new load, even if the sun is goin down quick, it only takes 5 extra minutes.
2- Should have gotten 45 ACP dies years ago, oh well.

Just another W-231 Win/Win situation, really love the powder for the everyday "meat and potato" loads.