.45 LC--Big Bear Protection?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by Weylan, Jan 9, 2003.

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  1. dmftoy1

    dmftoy1 Member

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    That's why I bought my 4-inch Model 500. Luckily I've been able to avoid the really big grizzlies here in Central Illinois. Never hurts to be prepared though! :) :)
     
  2. AgentOrange

    AgentOrange Member

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    My bear revolver is my s&w 500 8" loaded with 700gr t-rex killers, sitting ontop of 25.5gr of lilgun with cci magnum large rifle primers.

    There is nothing, and i mean nothing living on earth that can stand up to one single shot from this beast. Best part is that it has a killer brake so if by some chance you do miss, follow-up shots are quick and easy.
     
  3. COSteve

    COSteve Member

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    Is yours a new or old model Vaquero?

    My experience is limited to nuclear .45 Colt loads out of a Blackhawk, so I can't tell you for sure, but my understanding is that the New Vaquero is a much smaller frame to get closer to SAA size, and isn't as strong as the old model.

    :confused:
     
  4. saturno_v

    saturno_v Member

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    Wil, you are right to a point.

    That level of energy for the Corbon 300 gr. 45 Colt +P (1126 ft/lb out of a 7.5" barrel) is perfectly normal for full house 44 Mag loads, within the SAAMI specs for the round.

    +P 44 Magnum loads reach much more, up to 1600+ ft/lb.

    The "Big 3" factory loads (Winchester, Federal, Remington) 44 Mag are loaded significantly below the original specs....almost some sort of hot 44 Special....IMHO they cannot be considered "real" 44 Magnum loads.

    And that 45 Colt+p has little in common with the original 45 LC...it has the same name and dimension but as matter of fact is a totally different cartridge...try to load one of these in an original Colt Frontier....:D:eek:
     
  5. saturno_v

    saturno_v Member

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    At the typical engagement distances in a defense situations, even a very stout 357 load with the right bullet will do the job even on a large bear....is all shot placement...hitting the CNS...no caliber, no matter how powerful, not even AgentOrange's super-duper 500 hypermagnum :D:eek: will do the job if you do not hit the CNS in a charge scenario, don't fool yourself.

    The 44 Mag with the right bullet has been a proven bear stopper in Alaska....
     
  6. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    The .45 Colt in the original BP factory load (255 @900+) has stopped men, indian ponies, calvary horses, range bulls, and every sort of game animal, including a few bears.

    A Colt SAA with a 250 Keith SWC over 9.0 grains of Unique will do the same if you put the bullets where they need to go.

    rc
     
  7. CSA 357

    CSA 357 Member

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    Can i ask a ? How many people are killed or are hurt by(big bears) i know it does happen, but how often? If i was in a place where griz lived i would want to be packing enough gun to stop one, a charge is a lot differnt from shooting a bear while hunting, when you have time to place your shot, poor shot placement will not stop a small deer from the 45 colt or the 44 mag, im thinking i would want a 375 h&h or a 12 ga with slugs, yes i know this wouldnt be as easy to carry, but shot placement would be quicker, bear can be very hard to stop from what i have read csa
     
  8. JImbothefiveth

    JImbothefiveth Member

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    If the bear is actually clawing you it might jam when a revolver wouldn't.

    Jerry Mckulek uses a double action for some reason. And besides, this isn't about who can shoot faster in a competition. When a bear is mauling you, it's a little different than shooting at a target. And you can always fire a DA in SA.
     
  9. dunlop

    dunlop Member

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    If i am hiking under 5 miles i will use the .44 eagle.... i was a dumb ass once and went 15 miles with it... ARG it was horrible

    Never ever try shooting a bear with a shotgun!!!
     
  10. Gordon
    • Contributing Member

    Gordon Contributing Member

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    .454 Linebaugh conversion, but only carried one trip to Alaska
    gunsknives0009.gif
     
  11. CSA 357

    CSA 357 Member

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    Dunlop, you dont think a 1 oz 12 ga slug would be a bear stopper? You might be realy supprised! The 12 ga slug has alot more energy than the 45 or 44 csa
     
  12. saturno_v

    saturno_v Member

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    +1

    The Brenneke Black Magic 3" 600 gr. slug is one of the best short range bear stopper out there...it will go from brisket to butt through a big grizzly...it is really terrifying...
     
  13. Powderman

    Powderman Member

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    Here's my newest prescription for hungry bear...

    042008_13031.jpg

    Administer as needed to hungry bear who is intent on contemplating the rich protein content of your body until they just aren't hungry anymore. :evil:
     
  14. AgentOrange

    AgentOrange Member

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    45 colt in the hotter ranges is plenty for north american bears. ive hunted bears myself and dropped them with one shot out of my 5 1/2" riger vaquero loaded with 240gr universal clays and 240gr hornady xtp magnum bullets.....nasty combination, and my ruger shoots them in one hole groups at a measured 40 yards all day. i shot a 12" pine tree one day with 255gr hard cast hornady LRNFP bullets over 7.5gr of universal clays with a regular CCI pistol primer and the sucker blew an 8" hole comming out of the other side...

    if the 45 colt big enough for (north american) bears?......you bet it is....
     
  15. Weedy

    Weedy Member

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    Not sure about Vaquero

    I've carried a .45 Colt Bisley Blackhawk with Buffalo Bore loads for bear defense...I think hot .45 loads with hard cast bullets are fine, but Buffalo Bore states clearly NOT to use the +p loads in new model Vaqueros. That probably goes for Cor Bon as well. IF you have a pre-2005 model you're good to go.

    http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=38
     
  16. Oro

    Oro Member

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    Wow. Almost seven years. This thread has been necro'd on and off now for seven years. Impressive. At some point, it should just be allowed to die in peace!
     
  17. Weedy

    Weedy Member

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    Holy cow, I didn't even realize how old this thread was before I posted today...I guess the guy must have a PRE 2005 Vaquero.
     
  18. Stainz

    Stainz Member

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    When I see bears, I usually have at most my 642 5-shot .38 in my pocket. Of course, I stay on my side of the safety fences.

    Stainz

    PS Here in the SE, I now carry nothing larger than my 296, a .44 Special. For most of my life, I hiked with a Vic SAK. It's the 2-legged snakes I fear most now.
     
  19. dogngun

    dogngun Member

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    How big a bear?
    If you are in large brown bear territory, I would not rely on anything less than a 12 gauge or a Marlin .45-70.

    mark
     
  20. anadventurer

    anadventurer Member

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    I have shot with Larry Kaniut at the range

    I carry hot 10mm. Never anything else. I have carried the super red hawk in the past. The math just does not support the need to carry something bigger with less rounds. And the previous poster is correct, single action pistols in a confrontation with a Brownie will get you killed. My thoughts on the matter for the layperson http://professionaladventurer.com/2009/09/alaska-bear-safety.html and here is some math:
    Round (mps) Weight (g) Force (Newtons)
    5.7×28 SS192 594 2.6 1.5
    9×19mm 350 8.5 2.9
    .40 Cal 320 10 3.2
    10mm (Buffalo) 450 13 5.85
    10mm (HP) 298 11.6 3.8
    .45 300 12 3.6
    .44 Mag 430 20 8

    .40 (in 10mm) has a smaller diameter and will offer better penetration even to a round that is 1.5 mm's bigger (like the 45) and remember the faster the round is going after initial penetration, the less crush and tear damage it does (see US Army FM 23-10)

    If you have to explain why learning to shoot a single action fast is super awesome you are so off the mark. I propose without fear and with personal experience to back it up that I can out shoot anyone with a large caliber single or double action pistol with my 10mm and that the round will indeed take down any bear at close range. If you live in Alaska, it's a non-argument: 10mm is fine to carry. We see bears all summer long.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2010
  21. joe_security

    joe_security Member

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    Im thinking a 10mm Glock, backed up by my trusty 870 with slugs would be the ticket. If I ever had to go in bear country (and IM not), I would purchase the 10mm Glock. I used the 870 as bear protection when visiting family in north central wisconsin years ago. It was kept handy for the protection of myself and dog.
     
  22. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    For Southeastern Black Bear? Sure. For big bears...as in Alaskan Brown or Kodiak?
    Sure...as long as you remove the front and rear sights, bob the hammer, and polish the gun to a mirror finish so that after you shoot him, it won't be so rough when he takes it from you and sticks it where the sun don't shine.
     
  23. CSA 357

    CSA 357 Member

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    For Southeastern Black Bear? Sure. For big bears...as in Alaskan Brown or Kodiak?
    Sure...as long as you remove the front and rear sights, bob the hammer, and polish the gun to a mirror finish so that after you shoot him, it won't be so rough when he takes it from you and sticks it where the sun don't shine. ( lol true but still funny!)
     
  24. jmortimer

    jmortimer Member

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    Sorry to carry on with ancient history but the idea of a "pistol" cartridge for serious bear defense is a joke - even with the Buffalo Bore as indicated above in 10 mm - It has about half of the "energy" of a hard cast .44 mag or .45 Colt but the real problem is that the pistol round in question - 180 grain JHP at 1,350 might, possibly, maybe penetrate
    18" to 20" probably less if the JHP does its thing and opens up. So you can have 2 or 3 "shallow" holes or one 3 foot plus hole from a "11 mm" hard cast LBT revolver cartridge. I think the bear would prefer the 10 mm pistol to getting smoked with a real outdoor cartridge.
     
  25. joe_security

    joe_security Member

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    I was talking small bear, ie, Wisconsin. I fully realize the big guys (Kodiak,Alaskan brown) this is rifle country, no doubts. It sounds like anadventurer is living this for real, and is not using JHP ammo in the G20.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2010
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