Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by Weylan, Jan 9, 2003.
There is nothing, and i mean nothing living on earth that can stand up to one single shot from this beast. Best part is that it has a killer brake so if by some chance you do miss, follow-up shots are quick and easy.
Is yours a new or old model Vaquero?
My experience is limited to nuclear .45 Colt loads out of a Blackhawk, so I can't tell you for sure, but my understanding is that the New Vaquero is a much smaller frame to get closer to SAA size, and isn't as strong as the old model.
Wil, you are right to a point.
That level of energy for the Corbon 300 gr. 45 Colt +P (1126 ft/lb out of a 7.5" barrel) is perfectly normal for full house 44 Mag loads, within the SAAMI specs for the round.
+P 44 Magnum loads reach much more, up to 1600+ ft/lb.
The "Big 3" factory loads (Winchester, Federal, Remington) 44 Mag are loaded significantly below the original specs....almost some sort of hot 44 Special....IMHO they cannot be considered "real" 44 Magnum loads.
And that 45 Colt+p has little in common with the original 45 LC...it has the same name and dimension but as matter of fact is a totally different cartridge...try to load one of these in an original Colt Frontier....
At the typical engagement distances in a defense situations, even a very stout 357 load with the right bullet will do the job even on a large bear....is all shot placement...hitting the CNS...no caliber, no matter how powerful, not even AgentOrange's super-duper 500 hypermagnum will do the job if you do not hit the CNS in a charge scenario, don't fool yourself.
The 44 Mag with the right bullet has been a proven bear stopper in Alaska....
A Colt SAA with a 250 Keith SWC over 9.0 grains of Unique will do the same if you put the bullets where they need to go.
If the bear is actually clawing you it might jam when a revolver wouldn't.
Jerry Mckulek uses a double action for some reason. And besides, this isn't about who can shoot faster in a competition. When a bear is mauling you, it's a little different than shooting at a target. And you can always fire a DA in SA.
Never ever try shooting a bear with a shotgun!!!
The Brenneke Black Magic 3" 600 gr. slug is one of the best short range bear stopper out there...it will go from brisket to butt through a big grizzly...it is really terrifying...
Administer as needed to hungry bear who is intent on contemplating the rich protein content of your body until they just aren't hungry anymore.
if the 45 colt big enough for (north american) bears?......you bet it is....
Not sure about Vaquero
I've carried a .45 Colt Bisley Blackhawk with Buffalo Bore loads for bear defense...I think hot .45 loads with hard cast bullets are fine, but Buffalo Bore states clearly NOT to use the +p loads in new model Vaqueros. That probably goes for Cor Bon as well. IF you have a pre-2005 model you're good to go.
PS Here in the SE, I now carry nothing larger than my 296, a .44 Special. For most of my life, I hiked with a Vic SAK. It's the 2-legged snakes I fear most now.
If you are in large brown bear territory, I would not rely on anything less than a 12 gauge or a Marlin .45-70.
I have shot with Larry Kaniut at the range
I carry hot 10mm. Never anything else. I have carried the super red hawk in the past. The math just does not support the need to carry something bigger with less rounds. And the previous poster is correct, single action pistols in a confrontation with a Brownie will get you killed. My thoughts on the matter for the layperson http://professionaladventurer.com/2009/09/alaska-bear-safety.html and here is some math:
Round (mps) Weight (g) Force (Newtons)
5.7×28 SS192 594 2.6 1.5
9×19mm 350 8.5 2.9
.40 Cal 320 10 3.2
10mm (Buffalo) 450 13 5.85
10mm (HP) 298 11.6 3.8
.45 300 12 3.6
.44 Mag 430 20 8
.40 (in 10mm) has a smaller diameter and will offer better penetration even to a round that is 1.5 mm's bigger (like the 45) and remember the faster the round is going after initial penetration, the less crush and tear damage it does (see US Army FM 23-10)
If you have to explain why learning to shoot a single action fast is super awesome you are so off the mark. I propose without fear and with personal experience to back it up that I can out shoot anyone with a large caliber single or double action pistol with my 10mm and that the round will indeed take down any bear at close range. If you live in Alaska, it's a non-argument: 10mm is fine to carry. We see bears all summer long.
Sure...as long as you remove the front and rear sights, bob the hammer, and polish the gun to a mirror finish so that after you shoot him, it won't be so rough when he takes it from you and sticks it where the sun don't shine.
Sure...as long as you remove the front and rear sights, bob the hammer, and polish the gun to a mirror finish so that after you shoot him, it won't be so rough when he takes it from you and sticks it where the sun don't shine. ( lol true but still funny!)
18" to 20" probably less if the JHP does its thing and opens up. So you can have 2 or 3 "shallow" holes or one 3 foot plus hole from a "11 mm" hard cast LBT revolver cartridge. I think the bear would prefer the 10 mm pistol to getting smoked with a real outdoor cartridge.
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