45acp Case Longevity Test Update

[CQB45ACP]

Test Background:

Non-scientific test of longevity of Winchester 45acp cases. Began in late May with batch of 150-200 just to see how long it would take to wear out/break these specific cases. To "see for myself" and not rely on anecdotes of others, however interesting.

Have shot 100 rounds most every week since late May--about 36 weeks.

Batch size has been reduced over time due to various reasons but early on because I limited to only those cases with a specific minimum length of .894" or greater. Then added .893" because I was running out of long cases. Then a few weeks ago, reduced to batch of just 50 cases because symptoms of shortening and pocket tightening were becoming more frequent & pronounced and 50 was largest batch I could manage to load and shoot each week.

This update:

Big takeaway--after +/- 18 firings most cases have shortened to .887"-.889". SAAMI minimum is .888". No cases exceed .890".

But, maybe the biggest big takeaway is shown in picture--one case has shortened to just .8855".

At some point I should be seeing some indication of head spacing on the extractor. Am I right?

Unfortunately, I have no actual clue what that means nor how I could tell it had happened or was happening or why I should care.

Recall this shortening issue and absence of head spacing problem is discussed in scripture: http://www.floridareloading.com/index.php/2017/02/04/how-many-times-can-i-reload-45-acp-brass/

Two reloadings ago I uniformed the primer pockets because many were getting too tight and shallow. Today, I again used gauge and sense that six cases have tightening pockets. We'll see in coming weeks, but this could also be symptom of ultra clean brass & clean stainless gauge causing "stickiness."

Have to underscore, despite anecdotes of loosening primer pockets, NONE of these have loosened.

Finally, no cases show deterioration beyond marring of headstamps, etc., certainly no splitting. But also recognize not all deterioration is obvious to unaided and untrained eye like mine.

Enjoy and Cheers

 

[bfalcon00]

I have been following this adventure of yours and enjoyed ever minute. Keep the updates coming!

 

[ballman6711]

Thanks for the testing, I find it very interesting. 18 loadings is nothing to cry about.

Head spacing on the extractor would wear the extractor prematurely, although that could be 30K rounds instead of 50K. Another possible issue is that the extractor could break, or more specifically the claw could chip or break, meaning no extraction. Extractors are easy enough and cheap enough to replace, and to be honest I would probably keep shooting them as long as the primers were seating to at least flush, below flush would be better.

Keep up the good work!

chris

 

[CQB45ACP]

Thanks for the testing, I find it very interesting. 18 loadings is nothing to cry about.

Head spacing on the extractor would wear the extractor prematurely, although that could be 30K rounds instead of 50K. Another possible issue is that the extractor could break, or more specifically the claw could chip or break, meaning no extraction. Extractors are easy enough and cheap enough to replace, and to be honest I would probably keep shooting them as long as the primers were seating to at least flush, below flush would be better.

Keep up the good work!

chris

Thanks

I'll keep an eye on my extractors. Both pistols I've been using have 20K on them maybe a few more. I pull extractors and clean every few thousand rounds but quite honestly never really examine them.

Definitely seat just below flush and can say I really like the now uniformed pockets. It's much simpler to get a solid below flush seating without the repeated turning case and leaning over and over. Still lean into it a very little but they just seat better than before.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I have been following this adventure of yours and enjoyed ever minute. Keep the updates coming!

Thanks. It is more an adventure than test. I didn't plan it well and it's morphed into areas I wasn't anticipating, but I'm a former govt bureaucrat so mission creep is to be expected.

 

[ballman6711]

You'll know pretty quick if your extractor claw is chipped or broken. Really only two symptoms that I'm aware of, one is that a gun that was ejecting consistently (distance and direction) begins ejecting brass erratically, second is brass doesn't eject at all.

IMO a good extractor should last a very long time, maybe even the life of the gun. Your Wilson, etc... should be good to go, my Kimber extractor has been good for 12K rounds or so, but I think it's MIM so who knows how long it will last, lol! But I'm not going to fix it if it isn't broke.

chris

 

[1KPerDay]

Very interesting. I doubt .003-.005 is going to show up or beat up your extractor. The tight primer pockets is interesting. I never considered that but it makes sense. The metal has to go somewhere.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Very interesting. I doubt .003-.005 is going to show up or beat up your extractor. The tight primer pockets is interesting. I never considered that but it makes sense. The metal has to go somewhere.

Yes, "has to go somewhere"...you're one of few folks here that's put it that way. A way I can understand

 

[Blue68f100]

If you were to check the depth of your chamber I would wager that 99.9999% are longer than the max brass length. Even though it head spaces off the mouth there is still room for it to move forward. What is likely to happen is that you start getting FTFires when the extractor does not hold it.

 

[barnfrog]

Thanks. It is more an adventure than test. I didn't plan it well and it's morphed into areas I wasn't anticipating, but I'm a former govt bureaucrat so mission creep is to be expected.

Good science results in more questions than answers, right?

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Good science results in more questions than answers, right?

Assuming there is an answer.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Assuming there is an answer.

No question about it.

 

[FROGO207]

Thanks for taking the hit on the primers and consumables. I find it much easier on the pocketbook to follow than duplicate in parallell. All my 45ACP brass is lost before any other problems show up so I was generally ignoring the whole thing. Might have to start thinking differently in the future.
So far in the past I have not measured any autopistol brass as if it worked once and it does not get longer according to everyone then why worry. Guess I should worry.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Thanks for taking the hit on the primers and consumables. I find it much easier on the pocketbook to follow than duplicate in parallell. All my 45ACP brass is lost before any other problems show up so I was generally ignoring the whole thing. Might have to start thinking differently in the future.
So far in the past I have not measured any autopistol brass as if it worked once and it does not get longer according to everyone then why worry. Guess I should worry.

Curiosity, cats, etc.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Thanks for taking the hit on the primers and consumables. I find it much easier on the pocketbook to follow than duplicate in parallell. All my 45ACP brass is lost before any other problems show up so I was generally ignoring the whole thing. Might have to start thinking differently in the future.
So far in the past I have not measured any autopistol brass as if it worked once and it does not get longer according to everyone then why worry. Guess I should worry.

Don't thank me I'm not really taking a hit...my methodology, such that it is, fits completely within my normal loading and shooting practices. Knowing me like I do, if I tried otherwise I would've quit long ago. And I shoot indoors, recover 90% or more of my brass, so those little buggers are like family.