Don McDowell
Member
Man can't ever have to many guns.
.45ACP for the 1860?
- Thread starter Stormson
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Panzerschwein
member
I think the Walkers have a .45 Colt Black Powder Magnum round, I think made from an .460 S&W case.
45 Dragoon
Member
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- May 18, 2013
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- 2,766
"Value wise " comes into play when you already have the revolver that's being converted.
A revolver you already have is a revolver you already have. Adding $200.00 - $350.00 is cheaper than spending $450.00 or more for a dedicated cartridge gun.
It also depends on what the individual wants. Since your money is your money, you can spend it like you want, not like someone else thinks you should. Nobody offers a cartridge converted Dragoon. That's what I wanted. So, I bought 2 new Dragoons and 2 new Kirst gated conversions and set them up like I wanted. They are both the most accurate, mechanically and ballistically, revolvers I've ever owned. I'm happy. That's what matters. What I learned in doing so has become a way of life for me that I didn't see coming. Was it worth it? To some, maybe not. To me and my wife, absolutely!!!
Mike
A revolver you already have is a revolver you already have. Adding $200.00 - $350.00 is cheaper than spending $450.00 or more for a dedicated cartridge gun.
It also depends on what the individual wants. Since your money is your money, you can spend it like you want, not like someone else thinks you should. Nobody offers a cartridge converted Dragoon. That's what I wanted. So, I bought 2 new Dragoons and 2 new Kirst gated conversions and set them up like I wanted. They are both the most accurate, mechanically and ballistically, revolvers I've ever owned. I'm happy. That's what matters. What I learned in doing so has become a way of life for me that I didn't see coming. Was it worth it? To some, maybe not. To me and my wife, absolutely!!!
Mike
LOL.. Well.. Yeah there IS that! LOL
For me though, I guess I am trying to work out the most versatility, for the lowest cost, in the smallest package. I AM slowing down quite a bit since I got hurt a few years back, BUT, I am pretty well known for just picking up and taking off across the country, or planet, whenever the mood strikes... Shrugs, I guess Ive just had this semi-formed vision of the "perfect" gun in my head for some time now, and I just keep trying to add things it can to do to its bag of tricks LOL
Don McDowell
Member
Ever time I think I got the perfect gun, I find out it is close , but no banana's, that's how I ended up with 2 safes, a gun cabinet, couple of wall racks and a closet or two full of stuff .LOL
LOL... Not quite THAT bad yet...But Im working on it!!! LOL
Dog Soldier
member
I am not sure what your question is? The calibers make no difference. The cylinder back up plate is the weak link in the Howell conversion. Yes, the .45 Colt Conv can accept the .45 Schofield.
I am not sure what your question is? The calibers make no difference. The cylinder back up plate is the weak link in the Howell conversion. Yes, the .45 Colt Conv can accept the .45 Schofield.
Id have to call Taylor's, but Im thinking that the back plate on their conversions can be swapped as well. At any rate the Kirst definitely can be. You had said that the backplates couldnt handle the .45ACP pressures, but they already do in the Remington vers. I was just wondering why not, or why hadnt they, in the colt?
EDIT: Opps! Forgot the link! LOL http://www.oldsouthfirearms.com/kir...tonpiettastainlesssteel45lcgatedassembly.aspx
Dog Soldier
member
The one you linked is a Kirst. That is different than the R&D/Howell conversions. The Kirst requires mechanical altering of the guns frame. Your B/P exempt revolver then becomes a firearm. The R&D/Howell does not require mechanical altering the gun it remains unchanged. It is exempt from Federal firearms rules.
The Kirst requires mechanical altering of the guns frame. Your B/P exempt revolver then becomes a firearm. The R&D/Howell does not require mechanical altering the gun it remains unchanged. It is exempt from Federal firearms rules.
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Tacoma
Member
I have no experience with the Schofield but will say the AutoRim and Long Colt are significantly different in energy. The Auto rim is just like the 45 ACP but has a rimmed case. They share the same power levels, and load recopies.. The LC is generally loaded to higher power levels (and with heavier bullets then the ACP/AutoRim.
1st post - dragging up an older thread. I have a Kirst Cartridge Conversion for my Pietta 1858. I too was hoping for a 45acp 1860 conversion and emailed Kirst to see if that would ever happen:
Their responses are in red below:
Is there any chance of 45 acp cylinder for a 44 - 1860 Pietta? Sorry, For liability reasons we are not going to offer an ACP chambering for the Open Top Colts
Also I have one of your conversions for a 1858 NMA Pietta 44 bought about 10
or 12 years ago with the ungated ring. Can I cut the ring to form an open
loading port? Instructions are available from our website for cutting a loading port in your revolver frame the conversion ring can be cut in the same way.
http://www.kirstkonverter.com/kirst-pdfs/Creating_a_Loading_Port_in_a_Remington.pdf
Yours
Jay Strite
Kirst Konverter LLC
Their responses are in red below:
Is there any chance of 45 acp cylinder for a 44 - 1860 Pietta? Sorry, For liability reasons we are not going to offer an ACP chambering for the Open Top Colts
Also I have one of your conversions for a 1858 NMA Pietta 44 bought about 10
or 12 years ago with the ungated ring. Can I cut the ring to form an open
loading port? Instructions are available from our website for cutting a loading port in your revolver frame the conversion ring can be cut in the same way.
http://www.kirstkonverter.com/kirst-pdfs/Creating_a_Loading_Port_in_a_Remington.pdf
Yours
Jay Strite
Kirst Konverter LLC
Acera
Member
Welcome to the forum drobs.
.
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BCRider
Member
Or just buy a Ruger Convertible......
45 Dragoon
Member
- Joined
- May 18, 2013
- Messages
- 2,766
Wow BC! I musta missed something!!!
What convertible Blackpowder revolver does Ruger offer?!!!
Or
Who makes a Blackpowder cylinder for a S.A. Ruger?!!!
This is the Blackpowder forum I think . . . . .
Mike
What convertible Blackpowder revolver does Ruger offer?!!!
Or
Who makes a Blackpowder cylinder for a S.A. Ruger?!!!
This is the Blackpowder forum I think . . . . .
Mike
BCRider
Member
Hey! Nothing says that he can't shoot Holy Black cartridge loads from a Ruger convertible !
But you're right. It started on a downhill slide right at the mention of .45ACP. I just figured I'd reach out the window as it went by and give it a bit more of a shove ...
But you're right. It started on a downhill slide right at the mention of .45ACP. I just figured I'd reach out the window as it went by and give it a bit more of a shove ...
Crawdad1
Member
Welcome Drobs to the forum.
Thanks for the welcome gents. I've been hanging out at the firing line forums for a bit now and have seen some links to here. Figure I'd jump in.
I bought my 1st C&B Revolver a Pietta NMA Remington from https://fcsutler.com/ some 10-15 years ago. Had it and a Kirst 45 Colt Conversion shipped directly to my door in the suburbs of Chicago - no 4473 required. Shot it a couple times, didn't care for the gritty action, and put it away in my safe.
Moved to the sticks of south central Missouri and bought house with some land. About 3 years ago, I thought to myself - hmm I should try shooting that gun with black powder! Did a whole bunch of reading online + asked some BP shooters a whole bunch of questions and finally shot it with Pyrodex Pellets, Hornady Ball, and CCI #11 caps. Still didn't care for the gritty action but got huge smile from the flash, boom, and smoke.
Picked up a pair of Pietta 1860 Colts, did some reading / watching on tuning them, bought some real black powder, #10 Remington caps, wonder wads, etc. and now I'm really hooked. I compare BP to Independence Day fireworks. Just a ton of fun!
Here's my C&B guns:
Started with this Pietta Remington:
Morphed into these:
+ a Pietta short barrel brass frame fantasy 1851 - 44. Cheaper to buy the whole gun than just the barrel assembly. Problem is now I'm searching for a replacement steel frame... Find I enjoy BP shooting more than my cartridge guns of late.
I bought my 1st C&B Revolver a Pietta NMA Remington from https://fcsutler.com/ some 10-15 years ago. Had it and a Kirst 45 Colt Conversion shipped directly to my door in the suburbs of Chicago - no 4473 required. Shot it a couple times, didn't care for the gritty action, and put it away in my safe.
Moved to the sticks of south central Missouri and bought house with some land. About 3 years ago, I thought to myself - hmm I should try shooting that gun with black powder! Did a whole bunch of reading online + asked some BP shooters a whole bunch of questions and finally shot it with Pyrodex Pellets, Hornady Ball, and CCI #11 caps. Still didn't care for the gritty action but got huge smile from the flash, boom, and smoke.
Picked up a pair of Pietta 1860 Colts, did some reading / watching on tuning them, bought some real black powder, #10 Remington caps, wonder wads, etc. and now I'm really hooked. I compare BP to Independence Day fireworks. Just a ton of fun!
Here's my C&B guns:
Started with this Pietta Remington:
Morphed into these:
+ a Pietta short barrel brass frame fantasy 1851 - 44. Cheaper to buy the whole gun than just the barrel assembly. Problem is now I'm searching for a replacement steel frame... Find I enjoy BP shooting more than my cartridge guns of late.
Blackpowdershooter44
Member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2016
- Messages
- 406
Very nice pistols Drobs!
BCRider
Member
How on earth did you get my fence boards for your pictures? ! ? ! ?
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I don't see the .45ACP as ever being a good idea in the 1860. We should consider ourselves lucky that we can even buy factory made conversions proofed for smokeless. I don't think it's too much to ask to have to use .44Russian, .44Colt, .44Spl, .45S&W or .45Colt to do so.
If you want to shoot .45ACP, get an SAA or replica.
If you want to shoot .45ACP, get an SAA or replica.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
21,000psi is the limit for a modern solid-frame Colt SAA, quality replica or Ruger New Vaquero. Why would an open top, blackpowder percussion gun be able to handle the same? They can't. The backthrust is going to basically pull them apart. The reason the percussion guns are cheaper than modern factory cartridge conversion counterparts is because they're made of softer, easier to machine steels and they don't have to withstand European proof loads.Second, to Craig and BC... Umm.. You guys DO realize that;
A. There used to BE a .45ACP for the 1860, and
B. There still IS a .45ACP for the Remington...
Right??
A. No, there wasn't.
B. The Remington has a friggin' topstrap.
Obviously.
The reason I remember there having been one (and someone else on this thread seems to remember them too) is that someone else posted to ONE of these forums, complete with pix, of a BRASS framed Colt with a 45ACP conversion. The reason that it was safe is because the guy who put it together only used his own handloads in it and they consisted of no more then 20grs real BP.
So No, I havent delved THAT deeply.... But Im also not so ignorant that seeing a brass frame with a conversion didnt warrant remembering in my mind... After all, that isnt something you see every day! And if it existed so as to be able to be used THERE then it existed in safer steel frames would be reasoning...
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I'm going to put the burden of proof on you that such a conversion ever existed.
This issue was discussed on the CAS City S.T.O.R.M. forum a few years ago. A gunsmith who deals almost exclusively with these guns had this to say about it:
"CraigC:
NOOOOOOO!!!!! The .45ACP does not belong in the 1860. Pressures are way over that of the .45Colt (14,000 vs 21,000psi) and the sixgun would probably not last long, even if one could find a `smith to do the conversion."
"Coffinmaker:
I must agree with Craig C. No sane, self respecting gunsmith would even consider re chambering ANY cylinder for ANY of the conversions in .45 ACP. The chamber pressure of .45 ACP would disassemble an open top type conversion in very short order. Catastrophically at that.
For .45 Colt chamberings an alternative is the Cowboy 45 Special cartridge, intended for lighter loadings with the same internal volume of the ACP.
The .44 Colt/Russian is also a good combo and the .38 is a excellent choice."
This issue was discussed on the CAS City S.T.O.R.M. forum a few years ago. A gunsmith who deals almost exclusively with these guns had this to say about it:
"CraigC:
NOOOOOOO!!!!! The .45ACP does not belong in the 1860. Pressures are way over that of the .45Colt (14,000 vs 21,000psi) and the sixgun would probably not last long, even if one could find a `smith to do the conversion."
"Coffinmaker:
I must agree with Craig C. No sane, self respecting gunsmith would even consider re chambering ANY cylinder for ANY of the conversions in .45 ACP. The chamber pressure of .45 ACP would disassemble an open top type conversion in very short order. Catastrophically at that.
For .45 Colt chamberings an alternative is the Cowboy 45 Special cartridge, intended for lighter loadings with the same internal volume of the ACP.
The .44 Colt/Russian is also a good combo and the .38 is a excellent choice."
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