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45lc for Kirst conversion

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by flibuste, Oct 5, 2008.

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  1. flibuste

    flibuste Member

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    Hello,

    There is a point that is unclear for me regarding the reloading of 45LC for shooting in a Kirst conversion for Rem 1858:

    It is recommended that the bullet should not exceed 1000f/s (300m/s).
    But the standard load of 45LC is a 250gr bullet at 850f/s (250m/s).

    Is it safe to shoot a 250gr bullet at 1000f/s in a Kirst conversion and more generally in a SAA Italian replica ?

    Thanks
     
  2. mike6975

    mike6975 Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    va
    the kirst cylilnder is rated for "black powder loads" only and i think the max f.p.s. is about 850f.p.s. and i believe the manufacturer wants you to say under a 1000f.p.s. for bp loads.but heres a thought the colt walker loads are a 1000f.p.s. or more with there standard everyday loads.someone chime along or correct me if i'm wrong.



    Respectfully,



    modern BP versus modern gun ballistics

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    after doin some research and reading i found out this:

    (colt model 1860 army 44 cal. 8" barrel)
    37 grain load/138gr.=.451rb bulllet/1030fps@325ft.lbs


    (magtech cowboy load) cartridge
    45 lng. colt 250grn. bullet 761fps@323ft.lbs

    (ultramax cowboy ammo)
    45 lng. colt 250grn. bullet 750fps@300ft.lbs

    (colt walker 9" barrel)
    50 grain load/141gr.=.454rb bulllet/1200fps@450ft.lbs!!!!!

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    modern gun ballistics


    (wolf gold line ammo)
    45 lng. colt 185grn. bullet 935fps@355ft.lbs


    (cci blazer ammo)
    45 lng. colt 230grn. bullet 830fps@352ft.lbs

    (winchester pistol usa ammo)
    45 lng. colt 230grn. bullet 835fps@356ft.lbs

    (remington handgun ammo)
    45 lng. colt 230grn. bullet 835fps@356ft.lbs

    (hornady ammo)
    45 lng. colt 230grn. bullet 850fps@369ft.lbs
    ike
     
  3. Colt46

    Colt46 Member

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    Not really the cylinder that is the problem

    The cylinders are plenty strong from what I've heard. It's the strength of design in the 19th century revolvers that is the concern. I'm certain you can get away with it for a time. However, it is quite likely that those pressures will not be kind to the black powder frames over the long haul.

    The Ruger Old Army is a frame that ought to be strong enough for a steady diet of such loads.
     
  4. scrat

    scrat Member

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    +1 on what colt 46 said. a very good load very 45 colt if not using black is 6 grains of trail boss under 250grn bullet
     
  5. 1858rem

    1858rem Member

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    so is it the frame you think is the weak point? does anyone think the 1858 Remington with its frame would be plenty strong for cowboy loads? does anyone have anything bad to say for porting the frame to use a loading gate conversion? would it weaken the frame to a point to be concerned
     
  6. mike6975

    mike6975 Member

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    58' frame&kirst cylinder

    in my opinion i think the two make a very strong combo,i think runnin hot loads for a "long" period of time can't be good for any frame or gun.a the specs will tell you the gun was tested at pressures below 1000f.p.s.,for the sake of keep the barrel from splittin or blowing up.


    Respectfully,

    mike
     
  7. mykeal

    mykeal Member

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    Does the barrel see those pressures in a revolver?
     
  8. scrat

    scrat Member

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    the pressure spyke is initially right at the point of explosion. As the bullet travels it looses its pressure quick. This is why you usually only see blown up revolvers on the cylinder. however the extra force of shooting 1000fps is doing a lot of bad on the base of the revolver. where eventually he will be coming here with gap problems and out of timing problems. this all can be avoided by sticking to the recomended or below pressure. Same time sounds like he is going to use smokeless which is a nono. as the 45 colt can only hold 35 grains of black powder. so again another no no
     
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