$5,000.00 Firearm Safe vs. Cinder Block Outbuilding With Fire Door

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You're talking about building a vault vs. putting a safe in.

Unless I'm sorely mistaken, a vault with a proper door provides much more secure storage than a safe of the same price, as long as you have a new build instead of a remodel.
 
If I wasn't concerned about fire I could close off two or three areas of my trailer that no one would ever notice should be open. I'd need to add extra supports under those areas to hold the weight but that's easily done. That would be relatively cheap and easy but, again, this wouldn't protect firearms, ammo, food, emergency supplies, etc. from fire.
 
hso... Not really a vault because I don't have that much money to spend. This is more of a really strong outbuilding with a very sturdy door. This, indeed, is a new build. All ideas, sensible or wild are welcome. Let's brainstorm!! :)
 
My entire property is approximately two feet of loose sand (like beach sand) on top of a thick layer of red clay. If I buried a container it wouldn't be at the top of the property but, rather, somewhere in the middle where heavy rains will wash over it. I just don't feel comfortable with an underground container. :)
 
Storage containers wont withstand the weight of soil, without additional reinforcing...fwiw.

There's a big difference in the point loads (Corners) for stacking additional containers, and soil pressure all along the corrugated panels (uniform load).

There is a way into anything however I think a Concrete slab, CMU walls (Reinforced with Rebar and Grout) with a concrete deck is about as tough as anything and it is all standard construction. the door or any openings will be the weak point. you could also install nailers to hang typical shed siding to hide the concrete construction.
 
I like to have my guns accessible inside my house, plus have them under climate control.

Also from a layered security standpoint, all my other "layers" are focused on my house. For example, my two GSDs are inside the house. If I'm home, I'm inside the house and can be armed in a short amount of time. Alarm covers the house (though could be easily added to an out building). Safe is discreetly located inside my house. So before someone even starts to try and open the safe, they have to get into my house, get by my dogs (and possibly me), and the alarm should be going off (time constraint while trying to open the safe). On an outbuilding, most of those factors don't apply. If you have an alarm on the building, it likely won't be triggered until after the building is compromised somehow, as opposed to before.

Just me, I'll always want them in my house for those reasons. If I were ever to build a dedicated secured gun room/vault, it would be inside my house, not in a separate building. I will (hopefully) always have a house with an attached garage for similar reasons.
 
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Mike1234567 said:
Hmm... now I'm thinking of a well-insulated shipping container with a concrete base and cinder block skin. Climate and huminity controlled, of course. :)

Regarding cinder block breaking apart when shot; If the voids are filled with rebar reinforce concrete then cinder block is VERY tough.
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Mike,

Would you still be in the 5K range?
 
Prices on shipping containers vary with size, type, condition and location, among other factors. Last one I bought was a 40' high cube (8' wide X 9' tall). It was about 4 years ago and it cost $2700 delivered. We set it up on a base of crushed rock to get it above ground level a bit and provide a level surface for it, then tied it down with steel strapping over the top and auger-type ground anchors. I've seen this kind of anchoring done on 'office boxes' on construction sites and oilfields and they seem to hold up in the face of some serious wind.

We cut in a steel door set so it opens inward (a consideration in case debris gets piled against the door) in a solid welded-in steel frame. Then we insulated it and finished it inside with drywall after wiring it for lights, base plugs and climate control. Last thing was putting in a small split system for heat/AC. Total cost for all the above over time was about $8000 including the cost of the box.
 
Just for everyones information most of those shipping cargo containers are 12 gauge steel.
Some are even lighter 14 gauge steel.
The very same thickness of most sub $1500.00 gun safes.
 
Lee... There are several shipping container sales places all around me. The closest one is less than 10 miles from my property so I won't be paying "individual shipping cost"... only delivery and I "think" I can get a very nice one delivered (8x8x16) for around $1500. So I should be able to duplicate your suggested option for less than $7K (I hope). This will store ALL of my emergency supplies in addition to the firearms and ammo. If I add a good thick skin of concrete-filled steel-reinforced cinder block then it'll be FAR improved protection against high winds and tornadoes also.
 
Just for everyones information most of those shipping cargo containers are 12 gauge steel.
Some are even lighter 14 gauge steel.
The very same thickness of most sub $1500.00 gun safes.
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The steel isn't thick, but it is a much higher grade than what is used in gun safes. It's pretty tough for as thin as it is, but I still wouldn't count on it keeping somebody out.
 
Can't say it enough, Little internet camera systems and a Smartphone.

Metal skin keeps them out of your Ultimate man-cave long enough for you to get the police there... and watch which direction they run when they find out you've been watching them while eating a sandwich miles away.
 
^^^ Yep... live images help one to report to the police, "Yes, I can confirm that thieves are actively on my property as we speak".
 
Regarding cinder block breaking apart when shot; If the voids are filled with rebar reinforce concrete then cinder block is VERY tough.
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Now your going way over 5k, with cheap labor or not. it costs about 5k to pour a decent garage floor, so now were talking a floor, filling the voids, and a reenforced concrete roof. Of course your building could be a bit smaller, but you'd still hand decent construction. I consider a decent garage floor to be able to stand up to abuse from jacks, tools, parts that get away etc, and a "vault" would need to stand up to tools purposely used with force (walls and roof.) Footing would need to be good too to hold the weight of all of that concrete.

For a economy door..... I'm not sure about the legality of such, or actually the feasibility, but my best friend came up with this and its provided fodder for hours of hillbilly dream up crap that probably wouldn't work type conversation between us.. lol Weld a door sized tank up out of steel. install a plug in top so it can be filled with hydraulic fluid with hardly any room for expansion and sealed. would need to be on rollers. The theory is that most methods used to try and go through it would result in fire, and any method would result in an ugly icky mess. Taking legality into consideration, I think a good dye so the guy stands out to the police better later (and help more if your concerned about fire) is a whole lot better idea. Figured out quite a few different locking/opening mechanisms also, but getting into all that would take forever, especially when its a most likely a joke of an idea in the first place.

Another thought that occurs to me is using roughsawn oak for structure and sealing it in a 1 or 2" layer of concrete for fire resistance. Might even possibly build your concrete form out of the oak then pour it full and leave the oak. If you have a sawmill that provides it close by its cheap, and even though a sledgehammer would make short work of the concrete coating, They would need something awesome to get past that oak. Once it dries out its impossible to even use nails on.

I fully agree with the Internet ready DVR system.. I like to be able to see whats going on at home when I'm not.
 
you buy a safe,make sure the seller says on the bill fireproof storage for income tax records,istead of gunsafe.it now becomes a deduction
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Individuals do not get any such deduction. A police officer can deduct it as work equipment, and a gun dealer could deduct/depreciate it as a fixture.

Not to mention that gun safes should not be used for records storage.
 
Look into Insulated Concrete Forms (ICF)

They aleady contain the rebar; they are insulated and they link together before you pour the concrete - much stronger than reinforced concrete blocks. There is a slight cost differential, but I think it's well worth it.....Doc

PS - On a building that small I would also consider pouring a concrete roof.
 
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