5.45 or 7.62 x 39?

[evan price]

Which still says, there is no guaranteed source of foriegn milsurp caliber ammo should someone get a burr in the butt and decide to turn off the faucet. Let's say they ATF just decides to allow no more permits to import. Simple as that, no voting, no public discussion, it's done.

What about 7.62x54R? 5.45x39?
Lots of folks bought the beautifully made Schmidt-Rubins K31 rifles that came from Switzerland. It's a piece of ballistic artwork, a truly accurate riflemans' rifle.
How much is 7.5 swiss going for today (If you can find it)? And is Winchester or some other US manufacturer tooling up to mass produce 7.5 Swiss in quantity so it goes for cheap?
How many have found 6.5 Mannlicher-Carcano ammo available anywhere?

 

[Thin Black Line]

I actually remember the 90s quite well. And I remember that when Chinese ammo was banned, the Russians, and a dozen other countries rushed in to fill the gap.

That "rush" and how long it took to fill actual demand left by that gap took at
least 5 years. I can also remember more than once when the Russian supply
suddenly ceased from time to time in the 90s. Besides the various Russian
factories, S&B, and some small domestic production, who are all those other
countries that still currently export 7.62x39 to us? What else in 5.45 other
than Rus and Bulg milsurp is coming in?

Don't get me wrong, I think it would be great to have more domestic mfg
of both cals. But, as Evan just pointed out on two other mil cals, it may
not be like an endless supply of sliced bread. That's all I've been attempting
to point out.

And so it continues. The dinosaurs of today scream that the 9MM isn't as effective as the .45. The 5.56 isn't as effective as the 7.62!

To which I answer. It's the 21st century folks! Get over it!

LOL, I'm not that much of a throw-back purist. I actually like the AK-103
over the classic wood look, not to mention the AK74 style brake, and I think
DSA doing a FAL in .243 was a great idea (let's just keep the bullets at
100gr )

I never said the 5.45 wasn't a decent cal. People just have to admit there's
a certain amount of personal pref involved with it --just like the 9mm and
the .45. It really helps to compare the bullet types and designs and please
recall the 9mm was degraded for a long time as a self-defense round because
it's deficits were often cited when used in FMJ from a short barrel compared
to a .45 FMJ. The 9mm is a great round when loaded higher velocity and
especially as a HP. Believe or not, I actually don't carry a 45 --I chose to
carry a 9mm even when I'm not issued one!

I would love to see a comparison between the 5.45 and the 7.62. But if
the hollow-tipped (aka "poison bullet") 5.45 is going to be used, then a
fair comparison would be something similar in 7.62 --HP? SP?. Otherwise,
let's make sure we use two solid core FMJs. I'd like to see something in a
concise format that includes everything from the aforementioned concrete
blocks to 4-legged hunting. Use a similar rifle mfg to measure accuracy
(Arsenal vs Arsenal), etc.

Let's cite some real evidence rather than rely on force of posters' personalities.
Mmmkay?

 

[JShirley]

I am getting a 5.45x39mm for my SO, but bullet effectiveness is not one of my top priorities. (Light recoil, affordable mags, ammo, and rifle.)

Do I think it'll be effective enough? Sure. Do I believe it's *more* effective than other rounds mentioned? Not at all. Just in case my early statement is misleading.

John

 

[karlsgunbunker]

7.62 will penetrate brick or concrete block walls.
5.45 will not.

Perfect for when you get attacked by brick and concrete walls.

Not worried about the walls but the bad guy on the other side is SOL.

 

[MechAg94]

What kind of concrete blocks? Do you mean those fragile bricks people shoot or an actual concrete block?

.223 and 5.45 will tear up bricks also, just takes more rounds. If I want to really blow up bricks, I'll out a .308.

 

[richardschennberg]

I personally can shoot a borrowed AK-74 a bit faster and more accurately than my own AK-47. But I am keeping my 7.62x39 chambered beast because if the terrorists ever gain a foothold on US soil my plan is:
1. Kill terrorist cell;
2. Take their ammo;
3. Repeat as necessary.
Richard
Schennberg.com

 

[High Planes Drifter]

Well, I ordered. I went with the 5.45 from AIMsurpluss. I got 2 extra Bakelite mags, and 1080 rds. of ammo. It shipped today. I'll have it in a few days.

Im going to order a Mosin Nagant in a couple of weeks. I cant believe how cheap ammo is for those. I saw 300 rds. advertised in Shotgun News for 30 bucks. Unreal!

 

[chrisbob]

I personally like the 5.45x39 I haven't yet met a brick, block, or 1/8th steel plate 5.45 did not penetrate @ 30 to 50 yrds on the stone 100yrds on the plate I am still looking for a cheap source to buy milsurp ammo

 

[UrbanTiger74]

I have a Romy AIM(47) and a Polish Tantal(74). I enjoy both rounds equally. But as of lately, the 5.45 is more plentiful and cost effective than the 7.62. I do keep a surplus of both types of ammo, but if I'm gonna hit the range with an AK, it will be the Tantal more than the Romy.
As for effectiveness, if it can penetrate level 2-3 body armor, house walls, and vehicles, it's good enough for me

 

[jonboynumba1]

Really a question of commonallity vs. performance. More people and places have 7.62x39 ammo and mags ect. 5.45x39 is a hands down better performer and more likable...just about makes it as sweet shooting and an AR. (especially with the AK74 type break installed!) I just got an R-guns dealer flyer $125 and $210 for 1 or 2 cases of 5.45x39...thats cheaper than 7.62x39 right now by a good margin. It is the modern AK. 7.62x39 is the outdated but everyone who ever saw Red Dawn loves em anyway AK. Both are fun to shoot. The 5.45x39 is a lot more likable to me though. A really well made one might be a close second to a good AR in something I'd actually use. You can always get a 7.62 one later or vice-versa...right now I'd definately get the 5.45x39...cheaper ammo and a better round.

 

[Wolfgang2000]

Shotgun News ran an article about a year ago on how Russia's SOG's were going back to the 7.62x39 because the 5.45x39 was showing a lot of the same faults as 5.56.

Also consider that NO US ammo manufacturer makes 5.45x39! If you are going to go 5.45x39 you better stack it deep, or you will end up with a nice wall hanger.

 

[jlbraun]

I've never heard the 5.45x39 referred to from a non-Soviet source as the "poison bullet". Secondly, it's also likely that the "poison" nickname came about because people would get hit, be fine, and then later die from infection. Doesn't sound like a stopper to me.

Reports of the 5.45 projectile producing horrific wounds have been repeatedly demonstrated to be false. In his terminal ballistics study (http://www.btammolabs.com/fackler/ak74_wounding_potential.pdf) using live pigs and ballistic gelatin (1984), Fackler was able to demonstrate that the AK-74, even at close range, did no more damage than a handgun round. The only exception was a hit to the liver, which caused heavy damage due to the stiffness of the organ. All other organs and tissue were too flexible to be severely damaged by the temporary stretch effect.

 

[stubbicatt]

Get what you want, what you like. The price of the rifle is not terrible, and if ammo does run out, have something else in reserve.

I like the 5.45 and intend to keep using it. Ran some over the chronograph the other day at 3250 fps, this the Russian 7N6 ammo.

The 7.62x39 is a neat round too, if you like it. I just don't really like that round, and never really have, either. I have a Russian SKS which eats it, but I haven't shot it but maybe once in the last year.

The AK74 I have shot, and plenty. Accurate, inexpensive, penetrates well relative to the 556, and the AK just fits me right.

My friends all have the 223 AKs by Arsenal, and they love them. I've shot the rifles and they are very nice indeed. Even so I prefer the 5.45.

Good luck in your choice.

 

[LeibstandarteAdH]

From somebody whos had a lot of both:

If its your first and could be your only AK for any real forseeable ammount of time, go with the 7.62x39 just to be safe.

If not, 5.45x39 is much better for me right now, it performs against most modern threats much better than 7.62x39, ESPECIALLY in its machined steel ogive PS form that the ammo is NOT availible in with the 7.62x39.

In short i find it much more appealing for potential use on varmets with kevlar hides in the currently availible mil-surp-spec loading/s.