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50 Beowulf

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by lobo9er, Jan 5, 2011.

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  1. lobo9er

    lobo9er Member

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    Does anybody know if it is possable to convert to .50 Beowulf by simply swaping the bolt head, barrel, and mag
    Are the feed ramps different to accomidate the larger round?
    Would it eject without the larger ejection port?

    stole this question from another forum but i too am looking for answer and no one answered it there so maybe some one here can help.

    or is is cost efficient to to start with a stripped 50 beowulf upper from satern for $125

    or

    is is just better to buy a upper for 7-800 bucks

    anyone have experience with building a 50 beowulf?
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2011
  2. Craigman

    Craigman Member

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    the lower is just a lower. not beowolf designated. Cheaper to buy and upper and you wont have a box of parts laying around from the conversion. You will essentially have 2 rifles:D
     
  3. Lloyd Smale

    Lloyd Smale Member

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    mine is a complete alexander arms upper on a superior lower with rock river guts. Works just fine.
     
  4. lobo9er

    lobo9er Member

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    OOps i meant upper from satern. Do I need a 50 beowulf upper?
     
  5. lobo9er

    lobo9er Member

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    I'm doubting i can but is possible to just swap barrels
     
  6. Craigman

    Craigman Member

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    yes you need an upper.

    remember though, the 450 bushmaster does the same thing and you can actually find ammo for it. The Beowolf is "cooler" though
     
  7. Flintknapper

    Flintknapper Member

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    Ejection port must be enlarged.

    Other than that, barrel, modified bolt face, and some tweaking of the mags...is all that is needed.

    Yes, you can build your own upper for less money than you would spend to buy one....IF you have the proper tools (receiver jig, multi tool, etc) AND the knowhow.

    For most folks...the best thing to do...would be to buy an assembled upper.
     
  8. HorseSoldier

    HorseSoldier Member

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    And 458 Socom. (And 499 LW, but I think that one is defunct at this point.)
     
  9. lobo9er

    lobo9er Member

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    i thought about both the 450 bushmaster and the 458, but i think its the beowulf that will ride out the storm of big bore ar's. Its anyones guess really. i have read that the 450 thumper is the least powerful of the 3 but considering its in a pistol format it may not matter a whole lot. all three are new to me, and all 3 are very cool, but i think the beowulf is my cup of tea (as of now).
     
  10. 1stmarine

    1stmarine Member

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    Hi,
    The entire upper configuration goes with Alexander. It is an awesome round but prepare your wallet, specially on the brass/bullet side. Brass hard to find too. 3rd party I think you can use a DPMS upper billet (The ones w/o the dust cover) but I might be wrong. I don't know who else cuts the barrel other than alexander. The bushmaster is easy. The entire upper is affordable. The socom is also hard to feed, expensive and I don't think it will last but time only will tell.

    The energy ranking goes as follows:
    1-Beowulf ... around 3,000 ft/lb
    2-450 Bushmaster ...around 2,800 ft/lb
    3-Socom ...around 2,400 ft/lb

    You can verify this in the energy charts. Even in wikipedia I think. There is not a huge difference in the .50 and .45 calibers for the purpose.
    The bushmaster will also go through briks, bolcks, car engines, windshields and anything in its path. It will take down a grisly bear as easy as the Beowulf. Think of it as a 45/70 on steroids.
    All great rounds. I went with the 450 bushmaster. Hornady has plenty of brass and loads and they are extremely accurate, reliable and the least expensive.
    But hey, that's me.

    If you like the Alexander go for it, it looks awesome. I just wanted you to consider the same things I did. Remember sometimes less, is more.

    Cheers,
    E.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2011
  11. HorseSoldier

    HorseSoldier Member

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    Alexander Arms is its own worst enemy when it comes to financial success. I wouldn't put money on Beowulf being the big winner in this category.

    This isn't accurate. Ft-lbs for various Beowulf and SOCOM loadings are pretty much covering the same ground. 450 Bushmaster seems to mostly clock in around the middle of what the other two will do, but seems to have much less load options.

    450 Bushmaster can't actually even come close to hot 45-70 loads. Think of it more like an anemic 45-70 that will run in a semi-auto.
     
  12. 1stmarine

    1stmarine Member

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    Negative,
    Check the facts and come back. ...
    I have to go to bed so I cannot scan the articles, incling Alexander arms own info but I can send you some links.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50_Beowulf
    http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/45852-5.html
    http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/65231-5.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.458_SOCOM

    Also the Hornady standard bullet as a very good BC for what it is. Again nothing wrong with the others I am just trying to explain what I did and why.
    After all I might get a Beowolf too.... But defenetly the bushmaster will make you smile.

    Cheers,
    E.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2011
  13. Roughneck08

    Roughneck08 Member

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    Lol they WILL not come close to a 45/70. As Horsesoldier said, think of it as an anemic 45/70 that will operate in a semi-auto. Once you actually fire a full powered 500 grain 45/70 you will understand. I would much rather have a 45/70 for shooting a grizz.
     
  14. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    Are you confusing the 450 bushmaster with the 450 marlin? Are you looking at numbers for old trap door 45/70s?

    I see a fair number of loads in 45/70 that exceed the max loads I've seen for a bushmaster.

    The loads I've seen making 2800 ft/lbs in the bushmaster are hot loads pushing 240 grain bullets at 2300 FPS. A 45/70 can easily take a 300 grain bullet to that speed and make over 3400 ft lbs. I should pull out my books but I imagine loads for a ruger #1 are doing more than that. Please explain further your statement that a 450 bushamster is a 45/70 on steroids. Perhaps I need a further educations, big bores are not my forte by any means.

    What loads exist for a 450 bushmaster that cannot be met or exceeded with a modern 45/70?

    Further energy numbers are not telling the whole story. Not the whole story on how each performs and not the whole story of why one might choose one of these three over the others.

    My thoughts exactly. I wanted a Beowulf for a long time but I now desire a 458 SOCOM. I still haven't gotten either because I have no real use for it other than just owning it so it keeps getting backburnered for other toys.
     
  15. rogertc1

    rogertc1 member

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    You wold have to make the ejection port larger. I however bought a Beowulf upper 4 years ago. No regrets.
     
  16. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

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    I was looking for something for Indiana deer hunting (funny regulations, don't ask). I ended up with a .458 SOCOM. IIRC, the .450 Bushmaster uses pistol bullets (.452). The .458 SOCOM uses rifle bullets (.458). Pistol bullets won't hold together well at rifle velocity.

    As for the swap, as noted you'll have to have an upper with the larger port to get the bigger brass out. I suspect by the time you buy all the parts and try to get them to work, it would be just as cost effective to get a complete upper. This is the same process that I went through, and that's what I ended up doing.

    If you don't reload, you'll want to start (if you're actually going to shoot it). Just filling the mag one time with factory ammo costs over $30...:what:

    Cracks me up that the gamer guys here have all the answers on performance but have never pulled the trigger on one. If you could see what it did to a deer we shot this fall, it would answer your questions. I've probably taken over 50 deer with bow, muzzle loaders, and shotguns. Never saw one hit as hard as this one.

    Mine is a RRA upper on a Bushmaster lower. Snapped together in a few seconds. Took a while to work up loads, but I have it shooting about 1 1/2" groups now.

    There's a local shop that has a complete used RRA in .458 SOCOM for $895 IIRC.
     
  17. lobo9er

    lobo9er Member

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    I didnt go through those charts yet but i am pretty sure the 450 is on the bottom of the power chart of those 3. I'm not saying its weak, thats a list of 3 heavy hitting rounds. I thought the 458 is more in line with the 45/70. Again I dont own or have shot or handled any of them.
     
  18. Flintknapper

    Flintknapper Member

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    I went with the SOCOM after exhaustive research on the 3 offerings mentioned.

    I have to say...that some of what has been posted...is not only inaccurate, but laughable.

    Any of the three would make a good big-bore option. Each has certain strengths that might make it more desirable, depending upon your purpose for it.

    In the end, the SOCOM made the most sense for ME. It will be here for a long time, you needn't worry about that.

    The new forum is back up and being repopulated...if anyone has questions about the cartridge:

    http://458socomforums.com/


    Flint.
     
  19. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    Instead of just calling it laughable (which it might well be) it would benefit everyone more to point out which statements are inaccurate and even more helpful still to provide the correct info.
     
  20. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

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    Having been a member here since day one, I'd STRONGLY advise against that in most situations.

    While it's tempting to point to the shortcomings of the statements that some individuals make, it invariably leads to thread wars. If it can be done in a positive manner WITH FACTS, it may be acceptable. If not, the moderators will get involved and that's not a good thing.

    There are subtle ways keep the train on the tracks. Anything that could be considered a personal attack brings out the ban hammer in a hurry.

    Just trying to keep everything High Road.

    HTH
     
  21. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    If someone says something that is demonstrably false you do not think it is a good idea to refute it as false and provide the correct information, perhaps with citation? Seriously?

    That is the essence of meaningful discussion and advancement of truth. It is also less offense than simply stating that something is laughably wrong and leaving it at that.

    Now I have not been a member here since day one, but I have read the forum rules and refer you to the following (it can be found be clicking on the rules link at the top of the page):

    What I asked for is fully within both the rules and common courtesy. It is also arguably more inline with not only the letter of the forum rules but certainly their spirit than a bald statement that something that someone wrote is laughably wrong.

    In sum. asking for clarification of what makes a statement incorrect and facts that are pertinent to a topic appropriate for this forum is fine and entirely "highroad".

    I did not call for a personal attack. I asked what info was in correct and that the correct info be provided, as opposed to asking anything relating to any poster personally. You either seriously misunderstood my request or misunderstand the essence of personal attack.
     
  22. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

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    You must have missed this.

    What is "false" many times is a personal opinion. I've seen this road traveled many times over the years. Many of those guys have been banned (permanently) because of it.
     
  23. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    No I read that and was merely pointing out that it was exactly what was asked for. Off topic discussion is a violation of the rules and does lead to threads being locked so lets get back to the topic at hand. If an actual moderator has issue with my statement they can can contact me, post here, edit the thread etc. Thanks.
     
  24. lobo9er

    lobo9er Member

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    Actually redneck2 as the OP I am curious of the false statements too. :) Not in an angry way just for my situation in possible purchase in the future. So far this thread has been going pretty good I am benefiting in the info. These are very interesting caliber choices all with mostly more pros than cons. so keep the info rolling.
     
  25. 1stmarine

    1stmarine Member

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    They all are very good uppers. More energy on the Alexander doesn't mean better nor doesn't mean worse. There are other things like Accuracy, weight, cost, etc... that folks might consider depending on their intended use, priorities and likes/dislikes. They all are pretty accurate and good choices. The socom is an awesome round too.
    What I published are the energy ranking based on DATA PUBLISHED FROM THE MANUFACTURERSs from "factory loads" and factual data NOT MY OPINION.

    When I compare with the 45/70 I compare with the average factory load of the standard load. Same load the cavalry used so they could keep the rider on the horse when firing. Of course if you want to pump it up to the 300 strong you can. So any other load can be pumped up. Just be careful.

    I don't have my speed spreads in a spreadsheet but this fellow firearms enthusiast already took the time to document so initial laods with RCBs ballistic chart and everything.....

    http://shanedaughtry.com/450bushmaster.aspx

    I am pretty sure you will find great information on all the others as well including the manufacturer websites.

    I find the 450 bushmaster a good upper for me and I am considering to have a Beowulf or a Socom at some point just for fun. What it works for me might not work for others based on intended use or preference but I suggest to consider and analyze data from several reliable sources before any decisions.

    Cheers,
    E.
     
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