50-state legal home defense carbine - a concept

[barnbwt]

Ah, but with a PCC there's no need for a gas/locking system like in the SKS . A miniature SKS that shoots a mid-caliber magnum would be pretty sweet, though, and very lightweight. I also like the ideas floated about a lower-capacity tube magazined semi-auto. In addition to appeasing the Fudds, that actually sounds like an incredibly handy package. If short auto-loading rounds like 45ACP could be loaded so as to have soft/blunt tips, you could even end up with a respectable capacity, too. Attaching a crude gas-piston system to a pump rifle would be fairly easy.

Heck, the PS90 could even be argued as being extremely urban-defense-friendly in that it is compact, reliable, and fires a round with limited collateral damage potential that is still effective at close ranges (yes, effective enough to stop an attacker. Not effective enough to stop an attacker guaranteed with one shot anywhere in center mass--no need for ballistics wars ). The top-mounted magazine, as with tube magazines, makes the weapon's profile much less obtrusive. As with the Beretta carbine; just too expensive, and ammo is too unavailable due to FNH's incompetence (with the profit they're making on each round, you'd think they'd have shifted all production lines to 5.7x28 by now )

Honestly, the 50 state carbine was already done by Hi-point, and was specifically designed to be legal in as many states as possible during the Ban, but some evil kids got it added to the ban list anyway.

There is no point in a 50 state legal defense carbine, since the current anti gun-law scheme is specifically designed to be complicated so as to make gun ownership as daunting and undesirable as possible. If a semi auto is cooked up that is legal everywhere, it won't be long before some hack goes after it, since "we don't need guns you can find on the streets of Texas in our fair city." Besides, ban-lists aren't even the biggest stumbling block to firearms access in cities and ban-areas. Lack of gun stores, shooting ranges, complicated and expensive permit processes, and a concerted effort by urban society to completely isolate those under its dubious care from firearms are the real barriers to self defense.

TCB

 

[justice06rr]

A 50-state legal PDW is a tall order. I would say some type of rifle with a folding stock offered in pistol or rifle calibers. My take, I will always go for rifle calibers over pistol calibers any day considering if they are offered in the same platform i.e. 5.56 over 9mm in an AR15.

Personally, I actually find a lot of the high-capacity stuff just silly if you're not going to war, more tacticool than necessary. I certainly wouldn't feel underarmed with ten rounds in a handy carbine. I still see a lot of Ruger Mini-14s in regular use with just the stock box of five, even in places where high capacity is not an issue.

I didn't read this whole thread, but that paragraph by the OP is even more silly.

you don't need to go to war to have "standard capacity 30rd magazines". If you want your neutered low cap 10-rd mag, you are free to do so. I certainly would not want to be limited to 10rds on my defensive pistol or rifle if I can help it.

Have you ever lived in a sketchy part of town? think unsavory parts of Detroit, Philly, Miami, or LA. I would bet you will want those "high capacity magazines" if you do.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Re: the marlin guide 45/70... I think that's another great choice except that the caveat mentioned by JShirley applies in spades to 45/70.

I have a .454 casull lever carbine as my way of having all the problems of a 45/70 ... Overpenetration, recoil, oddball ammo, etc. ... times two since it holds 10+1 rounds.

You are comparing .45/70 to pistol calibers??? That makes no sense at all.

Mike

 

[ExAgoradzo]

1. Love the idea...not sure Im down with stripper clips.
2. Why have I never seen a CX4!!!?
3. Oh yeah, I live in CA.
4. Still would love to see this concept put into practice; till then Marlin 1894 44 Mag. The AR of the 19th century with a 20th cent load.
Greg

 

[Ed Ames]

You are comparing .45/70 to pistol calibers??? That makes no sense at all.

Hah, thank you. It's a great example of what I said before about how people react to pistol calibers.

Federal Power-Shok 45/70 300gr muzzle velocity (factory spec) = 1850 fps.
Freedom Arms 300JSN .454 casull muzzle velocity (from rifle) = 2085 fps.

The "pistol caliber" fires the same weight bullet 200fps faster than 45/70. That is comparing factory loads.
Yet people (joking or not, I can't tell) say it makes no sense to compare them, as though of course the "pistol caliber" with a SAMMI spec of 65,000 psi can't possibly compare to an antique rifle cartridge with a SAMMI spec of 28,000 PSI because everyone knows pistol < rifle.

To be clear: It is possible to make hot "modern gun only" handloads in 45/70 that compete with the pistol caliber, but when comparing factory loads it's a safe bet that the .454 from a carbine length barrel at least as powerful as 45/70 from a similar gun.

Or, said another way: My m92 carbine is a smaller, handier version of the marlin guide gun, with the difference that it hits a bit harder and holds twice as much in the magazine. So you're right...makes no sense to think the marlin is in the same league.