.58 Minie rifle?

[Shortgrub]

This happens to me every once in a while. I bought some .58 Minie bullets and round balls but I have nothin to shoot them in. I have shot BP for years but never a .58. Lookin for info on the quality of the modern reproduction 1863 Remington. Any recommendations?

 

[MEHavey]

1863 Remington

You mean an 1861 Springfield ?

 

[1KPerDay]

You mean an 1861 Springfield?

Or 1853 Enfield?

 

[MEHavey]

^^^ Fair point.... ^^^

1853 Enfield 3 Band Rifle Percussion 39" .577

Enfield Musketoon P1861 features a ladder rear sight with a slide assembled on a base with steps, steel barrel bands and other brass furniture. The ramrod tip is shaped with the characteristic jag slot. The gun is equipped with two sling swivels, one fit under the front band and the other fit...

www.taylorsfirearms.com

1861 Springfield Musket 40" .58

Features: White satin finish, forged steel barrel, butt plate and trigger guard, right/3, 8x1 nipple.

www.taylorsfirearms.com

 

[PapaG]

1863 Remington Zouave, hardly ever seen in the war but to see the ads in the 1960s the most popular gun ever.
I’ve had several. Most did best with round ball.
Of the replicas, Navy Arms, Antonio Zoli, stay away from Hy Hunter.

 

[hawg]

There were a few 1863 Remington Zouaves issued during the war but most were used for training. However some did see war use. Definitely stay away from Hy Hunter and Miroku.

 

[MEHavey]

And now we have three"

1863 Zouave Musket 33" .58

Features: Blue barrel, brass frame, butt plate and trigger guard/bands.

www.taylorsfirearms.com

 

[AlexanderA]

Looking for info on the quality of the modern reproduction 1863 Remington. Any recommendations?

I assume you are referring to what is commonly known as the "Zouave" rifle. This is a handsome weapon, but, unfortunately, the originals weren't actually used in the Civil War. Remington got a sweetheart deal from the government (perhaps to compensate for the low price they got for their revolvers?), they produced 12,500, and the rifles went straight into storage. Later they were sold as surplus, in new condition.

During the Civil War Centennial, in the 1960's, reenactors started by using original muskets, or substitutes such as Trapdoor Springfields. There was a demand for reproductions, by reenactors. It turned out that the first models sent to Italy to be reproduced were 1863 Remingtons, because they were commonly found in exc+ condition.

After a while, the Remington "Zouaves" began to be looked down upon by the reenacting community, becoming a hallmark of "farbism." (If you want to use a 2-band rifle for reenacting, get an 1841 "Mississippi" instead.) Show up at a reenactment now with a "Zouave," and you are likely to be laughed off the field. Skirmishers (target shooters) may still be using them. I haven't kept up with that branch of the hobby.

All that being said, if you still insist on a "Zouave" reproduction, the ones made by Antonio Zoli have the reputation of being the best. (Of course they haven't been made for many years.)

Personally, I would steer either a reenactor or a shooter in the direction of the M1861 3-band musket made by Pedersoli. (They use the same tooling formerly used by Euroarms.) The ones made by Armi Sport (Chiappa) are quite a bit heavier than the originals, both in the barrel and in the stock.

 

[AlexanderA]

There were a few 1863 Remington Zouaves issued during the war but most were used for training. However some did see war use.

There's no evidence for any of that.

Definitely stay away from Hy Hunter and Miroku.

The Miroku M1861/M1863's were some of the most authentic CW reproductions ever made. Long out of production. When found, they command a premium.

 

[dieselchief]

i am totally ignorant of that period correct rifles, but i like that 33 inch zouave rifle's looks.

 

[hawg]

There's no evidence for any of that.

The Miroku M1861/M1863's were some of the most authentic CW reproductions ever made. Long out of production. When found, they command a premium.

I have seen where Zouave parts were excavated from battlefields. Hy Hunter were the worst of the worst and I may be mistaken but I believe they were made by Miroku. Back in the day Miroku made guns to the customers specs. If the customer wanted cheap junk that's what they got. A lot of the Japanese Tower pistols imported in the 60's and 70's that wouldn't spark were made by Miroku.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

There were a few 1863 Remington Zouaves issued during the war but most were used for training. However some did see war use. Definitely stay away from Hy Hunter and Miroku.

I have two of the old Miroku's, within eight serial numbers of each other. "Ultra High". For sure, when they bored the barrels on those, they stopped and started the reamers or something...lumpy bores. Sipping Saki on the job? The rest of the gun(s) are okay, metal to wood fit is okay, locks are good. Barrels are thick, you can load them up for elephant if you like. I customized (bubba'd) both of mine.

 

[Shortgrub]

I have never had a .58 in any form. I am just looking for one to play with. It really doesn't matter to me which model as long as it functions and shoots properly. An 1853 Enfield or a 1863 Remington would suit me better. I like the shorter ones.

 

[Mike OTDP]

Skirmishers (target shooters) may still be using them. I haven't kept up with that branch of the hobby.

They are fairly popular. Though the P58 Enfields and M1855 rifles are displacing them.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

The ones made by Armi Sport (Chiappa) are quite a bit heavier than the originals, both in the barrel and in the stock.

I have an Armi-Sport, not current production. Just guessing I've had it about 20 years. Surely it is different than an original, (of no concern to me, although it is heavy) but this one I have is an absolute beauty, when it comes to fit and finish, and quality. Beautiful wood. Beautiful bore and rifling. The lock is perfection. Maybe it came down the assembly line on a Wednesday, or Tony was really trying to out-do his co-workers that day, going for a raise or something. It's a beautiful rifle. Just got it shooting real nice with Pritchett Cartridges, Hay type, and Burton bullets that are a true .5775". Size matters when the rifling is not progressive depth. Yeah, took me 20 years to figure that out. The .575" min-yays, I've never had good results with them. It will shoot round ball well. My point is, if you come across a nice Armi-Sport at a good price, I'd not turn my nose up at it.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I have never had a .58 in any form. I am just looking for one to play with. It really doesn't matter to me which model as long as it functions and shoots properly. An 1853 Enfield or a 1863 Remington would suit me better. I like the shorter ones.

One could always "create" a short one from a long one. I considered for a long time converting my 1861 into a "two band 1861". (originality be dammed)

 

[Mike OTDP]

Don’t discount a Richmond Carbine. Or Enfield P’61.

 

[AlexanderA]

I have an Armi-Sport, not current production. Just guessing I've had it about 20 years. Surely it is different than an original, (of no concern to me, although it is heavy) but this one I have is an absolute beauty, when it comes to fit and finish, and quality. Beautiful wood. Beautiful bore and rifling. The lock is perfection. Maybe it came down the assembly line on a Wednesday, or Tony was really trying to out-do his co-workers that day, going for a raise or something. It's a beautiful rifle.

I've been collecting reproduction muskets since my days in Civil War reenacting (during the 1980's). My main criterion has been faithfulness to the originals (authenticity). Armi Sport (Chiappa) has been a mixed bag in this regard. Their M1861 is well made. But as I said, the barrel and stock are both way too thick and heavy (compared to originals). On the other hand, their M1842 musket is a masterpiece of authenticity. Placed next to an original, it's hard to tell them apart. My only quibbles were (a) that I had to relocate the bayonet lug (silver soldered to the bottom of the barrel), and (b) the shape of the trigger guard.

Here's an original lock and trigger guard:



And here's the Armi Sport lock and trigger guard. As you can see, the lock is a good rendition but the guard has a "squashed" appearance. They must have copied a damaged original.



BTW, the "patchbox" on the Zouave is not for patches. It's for an accessory clamp-on "sniper" front sight. (By 1863, they were no longer using patched round balls.)

 

[hawg]

I got my Armi Sport P53 Enfield in 1980. The biggest difference is the Armi Sport rear sight looks nothing like the original. My original bayonet fits the Armi Sport better than it does the original.

 

[Jim Watson]

Pedersoli makes an 1841 “Mississippi” rifle.
Either in the original .54 caliber or in .58 as some were rebored to for same ammo as 1855 and later.

Is that something to consider?

0 Rifles model Mississippi rifle .58

Davide Pedersoli sells and produces reproductions of 0 Rifles such as Mississippi rifle .58 of the product line Mississippi

www.davidepedersoli.com

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I've been collecting reproduction muskets since my days in Civil War reenacting (during the 1980's). My main criterion has been faithfulness to the originals (authenticity). Armi Sport (Chiappa) has been a mixed bag in this regard. Their M1861 is well made. But as I said, the barrel and stock are both way too thick and heavy (compared to originals). On the other hand, their M1842 musket is a masterpiece of authenticity. Placed next to an original, it's hard to tell them apart. My only quibbles were (a) that I had to relocate the bayonet lug (silver soldered to the bottom of the barrel), and (b) the shape of the trigger guard.

Here's an original lock and trigger guard:

View attachment 1253339

And here's the Armi Sport lock and trigger guard. As you can see, the lock is a good rendition but the guard has a "squashed" appearance. They must have copied a damaged original.

View attachment 1253340

BTW, the "patchbox" on the Zouave is not for patches. It's for an accessory clamp-on "sniper" front sight. (By 1863, they were no longer using patched round balls.)

View attachment 1253341

That is "interesting" that they squashed the trigger guard. Always been a fan of the '42, but current prices have far outweighed my desire. I came very close to having my 1861 smooth bored. For kind of a 42/61. But, as mentioned, the Pritchett Cartridge and the .577+" Burton solved my long standing accuracy problems.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

BTW, the "patchbox" on the Zouave is not for patches. It's for an accessory clamp-on "sniper" front sight. (By 1863, they were no longer using patched round balls.)

I suppose it could be argued that patch boxes were never for shooting patches, but rather a worm, ball puller and a jag, and some material for cleaning patches.

 

[hawg]

The first reproduction 1851 navy revolver had a bent trigger guard because the original they reverse engineered had a bent one and they copied it exactly. There were several breechloaders that had patch boxes. The 1859 Sharps comes to mind.

 

[AlexanderA]

Pedersoli makes an 1841 “Mississippi” rifle.
Either in the original .54 caliber or in .58 as some were rebored to for same ammo as 1855 and later.

The original .54 cal. design was intended to be used with loose powder and patched round balls. Here is the 1839 combination bullet pouch and powder flask (S&S Firearms reproduction):



By the time of the Mexican War (1846-48), they were being used with standard cartridge boxes carrying paper cartridges. However, lack of a bayonet proved to be a shortcoming. The temporary solution was the huge and unwieldy M1849 Ames Rifleman's Knife:



After the 1855 adoption of the .58 Minie round as standard, many of the M1841 rifles were rebored to .58. Along with this, they were given better sights and adapted for bayonets. These adaptations took many forms. Some were studs brazed to the barrels, to take long saber bayonets. Others involved turning down the front few inches of the barrels so as to take socket bayonets.

 

[Ranger99]

Always wanted one of the shorter
Enfield muskets ( musketoon ?)
It'd make a great piece for muzzleloader
only season here.
A friend gave me a trigger guard that
him and a couple of others found
when they were detecting nearby an
old 1800's steamboat landing at a
western part of the county on the
river bank. That area and a bit farther
downriver is where most of the cotton
was shipped out for the south after
all the southeast shipping and farms
were burned out during the War Between
the States.
Anyway, he'd found it detecting and
he said the rest of the rifle essentially
crumbled as he pulled the trigger guard
free from the dirt. Not knowing any
better he took it home and put it on
a wire wheel and took off the dirt and
clay. I've always figured it for an Enfield
part since they were common in the
area and it's brass instead of iron
or steel, whatever the Union rifles
used. Maybe someone will recognize it