.58 Minie rifle?

[eastbank]

my favorite load for a .58 repo is 60 grs fff and a .575123 os hollow base mimi, in a target rifle made from a 1863 antonio zoli zouave. trigger rework and inturnel lock parts polished to a honest 3.5 lb along with the barrel inside lapped and good sights( adjustable rear peep and ramped front. honest 2.5"-3"groups at 100 yards.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

my favorite load for a .58 repo is 60 grs fff and a .575123 os hollow base mimi, in a target rifle made from a 1863 antonio zoli zouave. trigger rework and inturnel lock parts polished to a honest 3.5 lb along with the barrel inside lapped and good sights( adjustable rear peep and ramped front. honest 2.5"-3"groups at 100 yards.

I believe it. Have you tried a .577" Burton/Minie'/Min-aye? (I think that's the proper way to pronounce, it, used to think it was "min-yay") ??? Those turned my Armi-Sport from a hopeless case to a good shooting rifle, as far as the Burton or Minie' style bullets go. As mentioned, she's really shooting the Hay Pattern Pritchett cartridges. It's her cup-0-tea for sure. Those are a bit on the expensive side though.

Is your barrel glass bedded?

How much did you lap your barrel?? My rifling is quite shallow, I'd be a bit afraid of doing it too much. What method did you use?

 

[hawg]

I use a Lyman traditional minie that drops at .577. In my ArmiSport with 70 grains of 2F it's deadly.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I use a Lyman traditional minie that drops at .577 in my ArmiSport. With 70 grains of 2F it's deadly.

Yep, need to get me a good mold now that I know the .577's work. The ones I got from TOW sure didn't work. Really poor castings and they were undersized even though listed as .577". The ones I got from Brett/Paper Cartridges have a nice thick skirt. I'm shooting them over 80 grains with no problems.

 

[eastbank]

no glass bedding, but i would if shooting in any wet conditions. bore was polished with mild jb bore cleaner over a week or two, going from a tight patch to a looser patch toward the end. bore doesn,t look worn, it is realy shiney with sharp grooves and lands.

 

[hawg]

Lyman molds cast good bullets but they drop a little oversize, Mine is actually a .575 mold. The weight of the ramrod will push them down to the last three or four inches.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

no glass bedding, but i would if shooting in any wet conditions. bore was polished with mild jb bore cleaner over a week or two, going from a tight patch to a looser patch toward the end. bore doesn,t look worn, it is realy shiney with sharp grooves and lands.

I may have to do that, although, I only require "hunting accuracy", which now I am getting. But "more" accuracy can't be a bad thing. I'm assuming a polished bore will foul a little less and be easier to clean. ?

 

[dave951]

This happens to me every once in a while. I bought some .58 Minie bullets and round balls but I have nothin to shoot them in. I have shot BP for years but never a .58. Lookin for info on the quality of the modern reproduction 1863 Remington. Any recommendations?

Lots of replies, but if you're serious about an 1863 Remington (aka Zouave for the rest of the crowd), the Zoli is probably one of the best and still fairly inexpensive. Many folks shoot them in the N-SSA with good results. The issue with the Zoli is that it hasn't been made in like, 30 years. Parts are becoming unobtainium and if something breaks, best to buy another one and have spares.

Now the meat of your issue. Having a supply of minies of unknown size, buying a rifle is more than a gamble. To get minies to shoot well, they have to be within .002 of actual, measured bore size. Many think they can skip this step but absolutely not! You have to measure the bore first. If you really want to play in this world, get a rifle you like and then find out what size the bore is, then get a mold to put you close and maybe a sizing die to be on the money.

 

[Shortgrub]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts. I have one that I'm lookin at. I understand the relationship of bullet size and bore. This is just a foray into another adventure with older weapons.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

To get minies to shoot well, they have to be within .002 of actual, measured bore size. Many think they can skip this step but absolutely not!

Only took me 20 years to figure that out.

 

[hawg]

Mine are .003 and they shoot very well.

 

[brewer12345]

I bought a Zoli Zouave 4 or 5 years ago. Quality is very good and it came with the sniper sight clamped on (which I like a lot). 75 grains of 2F or 80 grains of 1.5F and it is very accurate with a .570 round ball. I am eager to play with a few styles of minie, but life intervened and I haven't had time.

The Zouave makes a pretty nice hunting rifle. A .58 ball makes short work of deer even at relatively modest velocities.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I bought a Zoli Zouave 4 or 5 years ago. Quality is very good and it came with the sniper sight clamped on (which I like a lot). 75 grains of 2F or 80 grains of 1.5F and it is very accurate with a .570 round ball. I am eager to play with a few styles of minie, but life intervened and I haven't had time.

The Zouave makes a pretty nice hunting rifle. A .58 ball makes short work of deer even at relatively modest velocities.

Truth, they will shoot the round balls well. My '61 is still accurate with 100 grains of 2fg Swiss under a patched ball, with two wads. I think the best place to try a "min-yay", or more correctly a Burton bullet, is to get a small batch from Brett at Paper Cartridges. They are a true .577+" (.5775"?) and will shoot well. You will be frustrated with the more common .575" bullets with any kind of hunting load. The Burtons from Brett also have a nice thick skirt. Have fun and good luck.

 

[hawg]

Truth, they will shoot the round balls well. My '61 is still accurate with 100 grains of 2fg Swiss under a patched ball, with two wads. I think the best place to try a "min-yay", or more correctly a Burton bullet, is to get a small batch from Brett at Paper Cartridges. They are a true .577+" (.5775"?) and will shoot well. You will be frustrated with the more common .575" bullets with any kind of hunting load. The Burtons from Brett also have a nice thick skirt. Have fun and good luck.

I doubt many here know the difference between a minie and a Burton.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I doubt many here know the difference between a minie and a Burton.

Or a "1858 Remington Revolver" and a "1863 Remington Revolver". Or a "Zouave" and a "1863 Remington Rifle". Still waiting to hear someone call a Ford Thunderbird a "Corvette". Maybe in 100 years or so.

 

[hawg]

Or a "1858 Remington Revolver" and a "1863 Remington Revolver". Or a "Zouave" and a "1863 Remington Rifle". Still waiting to hear someone call a Ford Thunderbird a "Corvette". Maybe in 100 years or so.

I had me one of them's Thundervettes back in 72.

 

[Jim Watson]

I doubt many here know the difference between a minie and a Burton.

Or when it is an Enfield.

 

[brewer12345]

Truth, they will shoot the round balls well. My '61 is still accurate with 100 grains of 2fg Swiss under a patched ball, with two wads. I think the best place to try a "min-yay", or more correctly a Burton bullet, is to get a small batch from Brett at Paper Cartridges. They are a true .577+" (.5775"?) and will shoot well. You will be frustrated with the more common .575" bullets with any kind of hunting load. The Burtons from Brett also have a nice thick skirt. Have fun and good luck.

I cast. I actually measured the bore of the Zouave and bought an appropriate sizing dies. Just have to find the time to cast and play with the rifle.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I cast. I actually measured the bore of the Zouave and bought an appropriate sizing dies. Just have to find the time to cast and play with the rifle.

I was never able to find a mold that threw big enough slugs to size down. Or maybe not one of a design I liked. But they must be out there. Maybe Hawg has one that throws .577's. ?

Or when it is an Enfield.

And who the heck was that Pritchett fellow anyhow????

 

[hawg]

I was never able to find a mold that threw big enough slugs to size down. Or maybe not one of a design I liked. But they must be out there. Maybe Hawg has one that throws .577's. ?

And who the heck was that Pritchett fellow anyhow????

My mold is a Lyman and Lyman molds throw bullets a little oversize. It's a .575 mold but bullets drop at .577.

Robert Tayler Pritchett invented the Pritchett bullet along with William Ellis Metford in 1853. Pritchett was a gun manufacturer, artist and illustrator. Metford was a gun designer.

 

[Jim Watson]

I recently saw but cannot relocate a list of rifle musket bullet designers, there were a number of different patterns.
Did anybody keep using Original Minies with the cup in the base?
Or Prichett/Enfields with the clay or boxwood plug?
Hard to see why, if they did, after Burton showed that gas pressure alone would expand the bullet into the rifling.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I recently saw but cannot relocate a list of rifle musket bullet designers, there were a number of different patterns.
Did anybody keep using Original Minies with the cup in the base?
Or Prichett/Enfields with the clay or boxwood plug?
Hard to see why, if they did, after Burton showed that gas pressure alone would expand the bullet into the rifling.

If you check out the videos at "Paper Cartridges" on YouTube that will tell you all and then some. I believe the Pritchett Enfield cartridge retained the plug to the end of it's life, but not positive. The replica/re-pop cartridges use a plug. From shooting both the Burton and the Pritchett, I believe the Pritchett is more accurate than the Burton. And the Hay or Boxer pattern cartridge was faster loading than the U.S. cartridges with the burton bullet.

My guess would be that further development or standardization of either system/bullet ended suddenly with the end of the war, and the birth of the metallic cartridge.

On other observation is that although gas pressure alone will expand the base of a Burton type bullet, the plug does it "better". So in a slightly oversized bore the plugged Pritchett will work/shoot "better", be more accurate, and can be made more undersized than a Burton for more shots before fouling becomes a problem. That would be my guess on that. But again, further development came to a screeching halt after that point.