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585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by hubel458, Oct 9, 2013.

  1. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    585 HE --- Super Strong --

    If you've followed our work in the 12ga FH thread you've seen
    our 585 HE cartridge and its development. We have barrels
    of cases and more coming.

    We have put it in all kinds of guns, and tested it with 650gr
    bullet over 3000 fps as heavy load to test the brass, and also
    for lighter game like deer and hogs and target fun we found
    that some of 440gr- 540gr 58cal Minie bullets work great

    First picture shows it next to 505 Gibbs, it has same overall
    loaded length as a Gibbs. Holds up to 190gr ball powder.

    Next pic is a barrel of cases

    Third representative of types of guns we have it in.Ed

    [​IMG].

    [​IMG].

    [​IMG].
     
  2. Deus Machina

    Deus Machina Member

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    By god, I flinched sympathetically just reading that.
     
  3. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    Sooo, is it a "shotgun" or a DD, or....? Are the bullets used in your 585 a proprietary size?
     
  4. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Uses all the regular 577 bullets, they all measure .585"
    Plus there are 4 Minie bullets that fit.

    It is not shotgun or a DD as we got sporting use exemption
    years ago for it. Just big bore sporting cartridge.

    That load was hot one, they can be loaded moderate,
    guns are weighted for whatever needed, thick pads shoot
    nice, can be ported....Ed
     
  5. morcey2

    morcey2 Member

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    And it comes with it's own chiropractor or orthopedic surgeon, depending on the buyers preference. :what:
     
  6. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    Oh lord, a choice between a witch doctor and a butcher... I reckon I'll just stay with my girly rimfire rifles and skip the injuries!

    What is the parent case? Cool cartridge, but I'm man enough to admit that I'm not man enough to want to pull the trigger on one.
     
  7. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    I made first couple hundred from 585 Nyati, extra long basic brass.
    And now we are getting factory runs done. Ed
     
  8. Outlaw Man

    Outlaw Man Member

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    Cleaning my guns.
    That second picture puts a big grin on my face.

    I used to carry a .58 caliber Springfield musket back when I did Civil War reinactments. Part of me thinks of how much of a game changer a squad of bolt action repeaters with that cartridge would have been in a flanking maneuver. The other part of me thinks you'd have had mutiny on your hands if you tried to make your soldiers shoot something that kicked that much more than their old muskets. :D

    Very cool. Thanks for the update
     
  9. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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  10. Missionary

    Missionary Member

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    Greetings
    Even at 2400 FPS that would qualify as one healthy "toyota stopper" ! Should be "piggy rifle supreme" for those who hunt the 500 plus pounders.
    Mike in Peru
     
  11. morcey2

    morcey2 Member

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    I read through the thread a year or so ago. Just reading it gave me a broken rib and detached retina. ;)
     
  12. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Yes it is nice for hogs and deer with the Minie bullets,
    440-540gr, and with those once you have cases,
    about 95 cents to load, Cases with those
    loads never wear out. Even with heavy bullets and
    mild 2400 fps loads cases last forever.
    I designed with idea that it is versatile and being only 1 in 10000
    hunters will ever go Africa so here is way for many who
    want a big bore gun, to shoot target, deer/hogs, economically,
    with out spending 10-25 grand or trade in the wife,
    for other stuff to shoot.Ed
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2013
  13. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Asked about #1, And perfect case for the Ruger #1.
    The very few #1s ever done in 577, they had to relieve
    metal behind the action shoulders that breach block
    rests against because of rim. Ours don't have to and the #1s
    extractors I've seen work better with belted than big rimmed.
    Ours holds more powder, cases built for extreme pressures.Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  14. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Case doesn't need special made shellholder, number 31 RCBS fits fine.
    It is a straight belted case that holds up to 190gr of doublebase powder.
    Powder need not be like charcoal, IE, really slow powder, as necked
    needs. So it has effiencies of 37-39%, where necked cases are
    about 29%. Here is one done in a Savage..

    [​IMG]

    The loads tested at high pressures about 65,000 psi, when extracting, the
    weight of the bolt after opening pulled cases out. We've fired moderate
    loads in singleshots that we mono-blocked barrels into and the cases fall
    out after firing. Here are couple a nice singles with 585HE in them.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Cases are made super strong, in the same factory run as the super
    high pressure Cheytac cases. The base of our case is same size ahead of
    belt as Cheytac/Gibbs bases. Done with same cups and draws, just uses
    a different header, bunter, and sizer. Here is picture of the one we made
    and the factory one sectioned showing the strong built inside corners.
    These are not balloon head junk cases.

    [​IMG]

    We and CH4D have die sets, Manson makes reamers, and we have some.
    Reamer specs all set and the chambers made with them, the cases
    extract at the highest pressures.
    Here is pic of one we set with 585HE in a Greener GP.Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  15. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    WE get asked about whether the 585HE is a DD due to being
    over 50 cal, and no it is not, as we applied for and got a
    sporting cartridge exemption few years ago.

    First picture is base view of cases new and old. On the left is
    4 new ones that come with no headstamp that I stamped,
    and the 6 new ones in the middle has a 585 stamp.
    We got a barrel full without stamp and guys can wildcat
    them and put their own stamp on..

    Second is side view with some in # 31 holders.No special
    holders needed. Notice how uniform belts are on the new
    shiny ones. Dark ones are ones I made years ago.

    Third is one with AP bore rider bullet in with others
    behind. Maybe make a great long range target cartridge.
    Got a guy setting up one with long heavy barrel for that.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Here is picture of 585HE with 700gr HP CEB bullet and 750 gr
    wide meplat CEB bullet..Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  16. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    In the pictures above you see the older first cases I made from Nyati
    cases and other cases that were Nyati clones. These were straight basic,
    long, untrimed cases, so I could get the longer case we wanted.

    We get asked about the process of doing it and here is picture sketch
    showing original case, a case with the start of a belt step, and finally
    a case after it is swaged and sized. Note the belt diameter ends up the
    same as the base diameter of the original brass. These cases we made
    years ago was how we got the 585HE started and tested and some guns
    done. This process can only work with original cases that have a thick
    corner radius to leave plenty of thickness ahead of the belt. In doing this
    process with different wildcats we have found cases that wouldn't work.

    [​IMG]

    Now these cases have a diameter that works with regular bolt guns,
    without extreme machining on the bolt, as opposed to 577NE and Trex.
    Here is picture of a case held in a Ruger bolt, for example..

    [​IMG]

    And our case is large enough capacity to get the power, without being an
    oversize, soft case. Thicksided cases relative to size of the case are much
    harder to harden the heads and the lower body back up to proper strength.
    because of the extreme annealling needed, in the drawing
    and heading operations in the manufacturing process.
    Our cases are made with same cups and draws as the ultra high pressure
    Cheytac cases, and our real high pressure tests show they perform with
    no extraction problems.

    [​IMG]

    Here is picture of a O/U I had top barrel sleeved with smooth tube, and use
    the 585HE in it with lightweight, hollowbase Minie bullets. Shoots about as
    accurate as foster slugs in a 12ga. Bottom barrel is 3.5" 12ga smooth.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Some more info- For guys in other countries you can get cases
    from Bertram in Australia. I can send die sets. There is a guy
    in AUS that has a reamer I sent him.

    We have experimented with black powder type of loads and the
    Minie bullets, The Minies we use are the ones measuring .585".
    Also for reduced loads with lesser amounts of powder we found
    that 24ga wads work perfect in the case, like in this picture.

    [​IMG]

    WE did couple guns in smooth barrel to test hollowbase Minies.
    Found that they work for shot in our case. Holds 3/4 oz of shot.
    Put a 24ga card on top and glue it in.

    [​IMG]

    We even got one in good ole NEF, with a 585 barrel monoblocked
    into it and gun weighted, with thick pad. Guy in TX got one also
    and there is video on ytube-- URL below-- Ed

    [​IMG]



    www.youtube.com/watch?v=HypaUdwQGAc
     
  18. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    We have a guy who is working toward getting the 585HE cases into
    Canada, for guys there to be able to get them from him..

    Our case works for black powder type of loads using .585" Minie
    Bullets also. Here is picture sectioned case with 4 Pyrodex 54 cal
    pellets stacked behind a 440 gr Minie Bullet.Goes over 2500.
    Can be loaded with 3 pellets and 24ga cushion wad.

    [​IMG]

    Here is an innovation in a 585HE Falling Block we did. It's in a
    one piece thumbhole rifle stock. Nice to handle and shoots heavy
    loads a comfortable as a weighted bolt action gun. FBW brand.

    [​IMG]

    Here is a bunch of barrels we have, the wrapped ones are slow
    twist just for guys doing 585HE guns to use Minie bullets for
    deer, hogs, target, and plain ole fun Using black or smokeless.

    [​IMG]

    Here is picture of one being done by a guy on a big Enfield with a
    nice figured Walnut stock. It is weighted and has a thick pad.
    Being done African style with thick barrel and integral front sight.
    You can see a bunch cases in background shelf.--Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  19. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Hooray the first batch 585 barrels from McGowen has got here, more
    will be built.They are the regular 1 to 20 twist barrels, and we have 14
    that are profiled and polished, and 3 others that are straight blanks,
    1 to 20 twist. And 6 slow twist barrel blanks for guys doing mainly
    Minie bullet guns, and bunch smoothbore blanks...Pics soon.

    Here are couple more pictures of the gun guy is doing with nice stock.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Here is picture of 585 FBW falling block with a Knoxx Comstock.
    Helps reduce recoil in this lighter gun. Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  20. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Here is picture of the barrels from McGowen, with other barrels.
    We got most of the McGowens profiled and some straight blanks.
    Others we have are the slow twist and smooth...In back some
    of the cases and die sets.

    [​IMG]

    Here is picture of an Enfield and a BBK in Hogue recoil
    reducing stocks. These stocks are the rubber coated with
    the easy to grip, nice pistol grip..Have Mcgowen 26 inch barrels,
    1 to 20 twist, barrels are heavy profile and taper
    to .980 inch at the muzzle.

    [​IMG]

    Here is a visual comparison of why I really like Enfields and
    Rugers for big bore work. An Enfield on the left.... Lugs
    built much stronger, simpler to put barrels in actions,
    without the wall in the middle of front reciever. Easier
    to shape breaches to feed big cases, so they don't hang up.
    Left lug longer and forward, simpler to do bolt faces to hold
    bigger cases...Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  21. The_Next_Generation

    The_Next_Generation Member

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    This thread is awesome, I really want an NEF in this! (with a LOT of lead in the stock, and some serious porting/muzzle brake (but not a barret-style, something more tasteful).

    Can we make this a sticky? So that future wildcat-makers can see how its done ;)
     
  22. a-sheepdog

    a-sheepdog Member

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    You must be a recoil junkie! :what:

    I enjoy my 375 H&H but my 416 Rem Mag pushes the envelope of my upper pain tolerance. I could not imagine squeezing the trigger on that behemoth, I would probably develop a permanent flinch and quite possibly need to visit my doctor after a couple rounds.
     
  23. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    The guns are not lightweights and with thick pads, good stock
    design, and porting if wanted, they shoot nice with moderate
    9,000 ft lb loads, You know a 650 gr 585 cal bullet at moderate
    speeds way more effective that any 416/375s at any speed
    you can get out of them. Ed
     
  24. critter

    critter Member

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    That is absolutely the most insane thing I have ever seen! I WANT one!
     
  25. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Well we found stuff so you can get one done.

    Here is picture of 585HE in a Montana Rifle Co. PH action.
    The double stack mag for the 505 Gibbs they make works ok.
    The Enfield in the Hogue stock above is gone.

    [​IMG]

    We also had guy show us how the case can work for a
    high energy subsonic cartridge. High energy for subsonic
    1600 gr at 1050 fps. The 585HE Whisper
    Anyone with some way overbore 14.9 mm necked
    cases on huge actions, can make case inserts for
    using our case to fire subsonic And fire 650gr or 750 gr at
    high speeds. Can't get 14.9 Russian cases use ours in
    same gun with inserts.

    [​IMG]


    Break action I like we did on a CBC by mono-blocking in a 585
    barrel set up especially for Minie bullets of 440 to 540 gr.


    [​IMG]
     

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