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6.5 CM AR?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Bixster_inc, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. Bixster_inc

    Bixster_inc Member

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    I have a little money burning a hole in my pocket right now.

    I also have an AR-10 shell sitting in my safe. By “shell” I mean a Spikes Tac “live wire” upper & lower/handguard/parts kit & Timney trigger just add barrel, bcg, gas system & brake.

    Originally I had planned to turn it into a 16” .308 with a Vortex Viper PST II 1-6 power. I already have a CMMG .308 w/ 18” barrel that’s a little cumbersome so a lighter cousin for that rifle seemed like a good idea.

    Things have changed in the last year or so, the biggest difference is I’m now handloading so I’m not as scared of a new caliber as I once was (the great ammo famine of ‘13 ruined me). I’m also looking for something different and fresh at least to me. Enter the 6.5 Creedmoor. I don’t know why but I really want something in that caliber, prefer to build something of the bolt action variety but I’m a little disenchanted by the wait times I’m seeing for actions and barrels online. A gun shop I visit has everything I need to get this done and ready for the weekend BUT so much chatter about putting a 6.5 CM in a gas gun defeating or limiting the capabilities of the round has me dragging my feet.

    I’ve noticed a lot of companies are putting out AR platform 6.5’s now but just because there’s a demand doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.

    Anyone have any wisdom on the matter they’d like to share?

    Thanks in advance.
     
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  2. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    I bought a cheap Ruger Predator in 6.5 CM just to see what the hype was all about. After a bit over a year I'm convinced that the round does everything better than 308 at any range for any application. Factory ammo and brass is readily available and quality target loads are no more expensive than target 308 ammo. If you handload you can shoot 6.5 ever so slightly cheaper. Bullets are a dollar or 2 cheaper for 100 and it'll burn slightly less powder. You can still pick up 308 plinking loads cheaper.

    As a target round the 6.5 shoots 140-147 gr bullets to about 50 fps slower than 165-168 gr 308 loads. But with about 20-25% less recoil and the much better BC's catch up and pass 308 in speed quickly. From 22-24" barrels the 6.5 is still fast enough for shooting out to a mile while the 308 starts running out of gas at about 800 yards. To about 500 yards they are pretty equal other than the reduced recoil. But while the 308 will match it, it doesn't better 6.5 at anything out to about 500. Beyond that the 6.5 pulls away.

    In theory accuracy should be the same, in practice most find the 6.5 to be better.

    As a hunting round it shoots the same bullet weights as 270 (6.8mm) about 100-150 fps slower at the muzzle. But within 250 yards the speeds are almost identical and the better SD's of the 6.5's mean better penetration from the same bullet weights. In a nutshell, as a hunting round it will do anything a 270 will do.

    All that said, I'm heavily invested in 308 rifles that I like. I'm not going to sell them and buy new 6.5 CM rifles at this point in my life. But if advising younger shooters I'd tell them to choose 6.5 CM over 308 every time.
     
  3. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Member

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    I've been wanting to build a 6.5CM AR for long range semi-auto fun. I already own and shoot an Accuracy International in 260 Remington (a very close ballistic cousin to the 6.5CM). The performance at distance between the .260 Rem and the .308 Win is worlds apart, and greatly favors the 6.5's.
     
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  4. Bixster_inc

    Bixster_inc Member

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    Where I shoot I’m limited to 440yds. It’s fun to tag a steel gong at that range then measure the bare spot on the metal before repainting.

    BUT...

    Then I connected using the iron sights on my .303 Enfield from the early 1940’s and I realized it isn’t as challenging using handloads with optics as it seemed.

    I do have a friend that practices 1,000+ on some land his friend owns and we’ve been meaning to make a day to go together but I want something that can keep up with his rigs a little.
     
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  5. farmerboy78

    farmerboy78 Member

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    call northland shooter supply. get a blueprint rem 700 and a remage setup and build it. a shooting buddy has a 6.5x47, 6x47, and a 6 creedmoor that has done with a criterion barrel and they absolutely hammer. very reasonable price
     
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  6. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Ignore the chatter. Anyone telling you the gas gun “defeats the purpose” of a Creed cartridge is speaking from complete inexperience.

    I had two gas guns in 6.5 Creedmoor on my squad this weekend at a national PRS match. They didn’t give up anything on the bolt gun shooters in the conditions we shot out to 1100yrds.

    More than likely, you’ll be compelled to run a shorter barrel in a gas gun than you would in a stick shift, which is the only way a gas gun will “limit” the capabilities of the 6.5 creed - and even at that, the “limitation” is largely trivial. You’ll give up a couple hundred feet per second in running a 20” barrel and can’t fit 147’s in the mag. Throw a 24-26” barrel on your gas gun and you’ll give up nothing but a quarter minute of inherent precision and a bit of weight.

    You won’t likely shoot fast enough, often enough to warrant a gas gun, but it DOES let you stay in position between repeats, rather than breaking position to cycle the bolt.

    I don’t know if I’ll ever build another AR-10 in 308win, but I do know I’ll build another 6 creed AR-10, and probably another 6.5.
     
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  7. Bixster_inc

    Bixster_inc Member

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    So I did it today.

    Got the following
    Aero Precision 22” barrel
    Aero Precision NB BCG
    Magpul gen 3 PRS stock
    Can’t remember the brake brand but the guy heavily recommended it. And it’s suppressor ready for when I find myself living in a free state next year.

    Still need
    Adjustable gas block - thinking Odin Works
    *sigh* optic...
    I have a Vortex Viper PST gen 2 5-25 on my .308 Ruger precision rifle and I was thinking about picking up another for the 6.5

    But part of me wants to finally put the Razor HD 2 4.5-27 with some vortex rings on something, this might be the project.
     
  8. bfoosh006

    bfoosh006 Member

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    I love my 6.5CM AR's ... on a good day they can make even me look like I know what I am doing. ( and I certainly don't shoot like this every day... but.. sometimes I can take advantage of the firearms potential )

    PSA rifle, with a 22" SS Criterion barrel installed, lapped the upper receiver face flat, Loctite'd 690 the barrel in place. Adj. GB , heavier buffer and recoil spring. I did all the "work".

    100yds , 10rds Hornady 140gr Amer. Gunner... ( Flubbed the 10th shot myself... got to giddy ) Rapid'ish fire... no barrel cool down.. fire.. get back on target, fire.. get back on target.... etc .

    bcs1wiqa-606179.jpg
     
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  9. LocoGringo

    LocoGringo Member

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    You've not really said what the purpose of this rifle will be. Is it for hunting, long range/precision work? Will you be shooting in field positions or strictly prone? What distances do you expect to shoot? There's a lot of info missing that is necessary to make a recommendation.

    Might I recommend taking a look at SLR Rifleworks for the adjustable gas block? Great company with great people and a great product.
     
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  10. Bixster_inc

    Bixster_inc Member

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    If by hunting you mean taking a shot at a coyote if I see one then yes. I’d love to shoot around 1000-1200 if the opportunity presents itself. I can only do 440 safely where I’m at now. The barrel I bought is really heavy so this’ll be shot from a bench or laying on my belly.

    I’ll take a look at that gas block, thanks for the advice.
     
  11. Bixster_inc

    Bixster_inc Member

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    Got it all together and took it out today, shot beautifully through the recommended break in process (we’ll leave out that I didn’t line up the gas block too well essentially making it a bolt gun).

    Got it sighted in and it shot sub MOA with the Hornady 140gr ELD Match until I started getting the wobbles and the wind picked up. I’d like to duplicate the round when I get my dies in the mail but I’ve read my trusty Varget won’t do well with the 140gr especially out of a gas gun. Any recommendations on a starting powder for said bullet? I’m in California so if it’s under 60 I ain’t going shooting.

    Forgive the dorky shark fin grip, again I’m in California and it makes the rifle “featureless” therefore allows me to have a standard mag release and avoid registration.
     

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  12. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    You realize Calif. Requires non lead bullets for Hunting
     
  13. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    @bfoosh006 that's some impressive shooting, and with factory ammo no less
     
  14. bfoosh006

    bfoosh006 Member

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    "@bfoosh006 that's some impressive shooting, and with factory ammo no less"


    Thank You ...I can't take all the credit, as the rifles allow me to achieve groups like this... and like I mentioned sometimes I get my ducks all in a row.

    Ultimately... If I can do this... so can anyone else.

    My first PSA in 6.5CM also shoots very well.... even straight out of the box. All shots at 100yds benched, scoped, bagged front and rear.

    5rds Nosler CC140gr

    IMG_2685_JPG-360077.jpg

    5rds... Fed. AE 140gr

    IMG_2694_JPG-360078.jpg

    10rds Atlanta Arms 123gr

    IMG_1237 (2).jpg

    Hornady 120gr (?)
    IMG_2703_JPG-360119.jpg


    I guess my point is.... 6.5CM's can shoot really well considering the firearm platform... all those moving parts can work... even in a $800 PSA PA65. Find the ammo it likes... and you will be happy.

    FWIW, my OEM PA65 shot 5 factory rounds sub-MOA that day... and after truing the upper reciever face and "Loctiting" in the barrel, it fired many more Factory ammo's far better.

    "Some of the rounds that showed the most improvement are ... ( no specific order.. ) Again group size does not have .264 subtracted from them.

    Difference in group size, FGMM 130gr Hybrid OTM..... Before 2.3660" 5rds, .... After .9580".

    Difference in group size, .Hornady 140gr ELD Match.... Before 2.2045" 5rds, .... After .9290".

    Difference in group size, PRIME 130gr HPBT Match.... Before 1.9165" 5rds, .... After .9620"...

    Difference in group size, Federal Fusion 140gr..... Before 2.1445"... After... 1.4355"

    Difference in group size, Hornady American Gunner 140gr BTHP.... Before ...1.1950" .... After.... .7520"

    Difference in group size...Creedmoor Sports 140gr Nosler BTHP... Before 1.5135"... After... .8770".... "


    Give your Large Frame AR some simple to do "help" and you will enjoy it even more.
    An Adj. GB will even help.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
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