6.5 Creedmoor past present future

[Keyfer 55]

The Creedmoor is going to put a lot of cartridges on the extinct list.

 

[horsemen61]

Keyfer I agree

 

[LoonWulf]

i doubt it. It may lower the popularity of a number of cartridges, but so many of the standards are already in circulation that is extinction is unlikely.

 

[Newtosavage]

It's comparable to the 6.5x55 or maybe even the 7mm-08.

It's "CreedMagic" to say that it outperforms the .270 in the field.






GR

GR, nothing outperforms the .270 in your mind.

 

[Newtosavage]

As for the future of the 6.5 CM in my home, it has none. Just sold my 6.5 CM savage barrel, dies, brass and bullets.

Why? Because I'm a hunter first and foremost and the 6.5 CM doesn't do anything my 7mm-08 won't do. The amount of recoil from a full-load 140 grain 6.5 CM round was so similar (both 7 lb rifles) to my 139-grain 7mm-08 loads that despite trying, I could not tell any difference at all, and the 139 7mm-08 bullet was going 1000 fps. faster. So no gain there to me at least.

I've gone back to having two primary hunting rifles and both are 7mm-08. A stainless Tikka T3 with a Weaver fixed 6x scope, modified bolt stop and magazine that allows me to load 162-grain ELD-X's out to 2.90" and throws them at 2680 fps. That's my mountain rifle. My other is a Savage with a 20" barrel, 2-7 VX-II and lightweight hunter walnut stock that slings 139-grain SST's and 130-grain Speer bullets at 2800 fps. for whitetails and pigs. It's a potent combination and best of all, ONE brass prep for both rifles!

 

[horsemen61]

^^ Hey newtosavage I totally understand that. I’ve never said it’s the “perfect” cartridge for everyone you tried it and it wasn’t different enough from what you had I get that. At least you tried it the problem I have is when people just knock it without even trying it at least shoot the dang thing before you say no thanks.
Like Mom said “you can’t not like it if you haven’t tried it”

 

[Newtosavage]

^^ Hey newtosavage I totally understand that. I’ve never said it’s the “perfect” cartridge for everyone you tried it and it wasn’t different enough from what you had I get that. At least you tried it the problem I have is when people just knock it without even trying it at least shoot the dang thing before you say no thanks.
Like Mom said “you can’t not like it if you haven’t tried it”

Yea, it's just a tool to me - no emotional attachment at all. If I thought it was a better tool than what I already have, I would have gladly switched over. If I were starting from scratch as a new hunter/shooter, the 6.5 CM would be an excellent choice for a first hunting rifle. I think a lot of young hunters will probably start with a 6.5 CM today whereas 20 years ago they would have started with a .243 or 7mm-08.

Personally, the convenience of one brass prep for all my hunting is big to me. And I'm not giving up the 7mm-08 as my mountain rifle because I want the ability to load 160-class bullets for things like elk, caribou and perhaps even moose. So the two rifle/one brass solution works great for my needs.

Why people knock a tool or get so emotionally attached is beyond me. I guess it's the Ford vs. Chevy mentality, only with guns.

 

[Garandimal]

GR, nothing outperforms the .270 in your mind.

Untrue, N.

As stated in another thread, the .270 WSM outperforms the .270 WCF at the 4-600 yard range, and the 6.5 PRC outperforming that at 600+.

But, as a sane and ethical hunter, those ranges, and therefore cartridges, don't often enter my envelope.

Like the 6.5 CM.

If I had a young daughter, that's the cartridge her rifle would be chambered in.

..until she was big enough for her M1 Garand.

​

Really, It's a great participation cartridge, like the 9mm Euro.

Everybody wins!
(...as long as you don't keep score.)






GR

 

[kimberkid]

BTW, despite my affection for the 6.5 Swede and .260 Rem, I have grown to like the 6.5 Creed a great deal. I recently swapped a Sako Bavarian in .300 WSM (I no longer hunt since I turned 72) for a Sako TRG-22 in 6.5 Creed. Sako makes great rifles! Indeed, I'll probably pick up a Bartlein 6.5 Creed barrel for my AI AT when I finish shooting out my .260 Rem barrel. I'm looking forward to a rigorous load development process for this fine caliber.

I hate to rain on your parade ... I found there wasn't much need for load development, at least for me.
I built mine in with the AR10 style lower and JP Enterprise barrel (with their red heat sink) with their float tube, bolt / carrier, captured recoil spring and Geissele Super Dynamic Enhanced Trigger.

The first thing I did was to buy a box of 20 of Hornady match ammo, then 200 cases, some 123 and 140 Hornady match projectiles, I used standard primers and found some load data for a power I already had (IIRC it was Data 2230), pretty much a universal powder for everything from 223 to 308 ... I took their min and max load, added them together and divided by 2 for my first load, and loaded up 40 rounds.

To sight it in I pulled the bolt out, locked it down in a bench vise I'd brought, looked through the barrel to get the scope close ... of course it wasn't perfect, but it was on paper. First I shot the match ammo I'd bought and at shot four 5-round groups at 100 yards, running a couple patchs down the barrel and adjusting the scope a bit after each group, IIRC the best group was about 1.25" ... I was dismayed at best.

Then I took out my hand-loads, same targets and also at 100, first group was about the size of a quarter and all 5 were touching ... shot another 5 and again, group was about the size of a nickle and all 5 were touching ... I was stoked.

There were so old shotgunners that had wandered up from the shotgun range and they were trying to hit a 3" target at 300 yard, it was a new dinger that had just been put up and it would flip side to side when you hit it ... none had touched it in the 30-45 minutes I'd been there ... they'd looked at my targets and seemed to be mocking me and asked if I thought I could hit this 300yd dinger with my "fancy rig"

​

With a fairly humble tone, I told them that this was its maiden trip to the range and I hadn't developed a load yet, but I'd give it a go ... I guestimated how much elevation and we had a bit of wind 5-15mph from the south; of course I couldn't see where the first shot went but it was a miss. One of the guys with a spotting scope said I had hit the post the dinger was mounted on and was about 2 inches low ... my scope is a Leupold Mark 4 8.5-25x50 ER/T with M1 Front Focal Tactical Milling Dot it has hash marks so without making any scope adjustments I just guesstimated and I dinged/flipped it, then flipped it a couple more times and except for them coming over to get a better look at "my fancy rig" that shut them up ... it was pretty cool.

Since then I've shot the same load out to 450 yards and got groups 2.5" to just a hair under 3" ... I keep thinking I'll go out to another friends farm and see if I can get set up to shoot 1000 yards to see what it'll do.

 

[SharpDog]

The 6.5 CM is obsolete, you need the 6.5 PRC to be a kool kid

 

[HardCase]

My only 6.5C is a Tikka T3x TAC A1, and I love it and shoot it quite often. But I doubt I'll ever own a hunting rifle in the caliber. Why? Simply because I have several hunting rifles, a 30-06, a 308, a 45-70, and a 9.3x74R. Oh, and a 7mm Rem Mag, although I haven't used that one in about 30 years. I'm an old guy and my hunting adventures are fairly low-key. If I were young and just starting out acquiring guns I'd probably get a 6.5C in some sort of hunting configuration, but I've got those bases well covered with a number of great older calibers and don't really need to replace anything.

I love guns and enjoy the old stuff as well as the new stuff. This is all good fun, not a contest, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Newtosavage]

Really, It's a great participation cartridge, like the 9mm Euro.

Everybody wins!
(...as long as you don't keep score.)






GR

Hi, I'm Garandimal and I post controversial statements so I can get attention...

 

[horsemen61]

Let’s keep this positive I don’t want to see it closed

 

[Garandimal]

Hi, I'm Garandimal and I post controversial statements so I can get attention...

Controversial... since 1925.






GR

 

[Old Stumpy]

The Creedmoor is going to put a lot of cartridges on the extinct list.

Cartridges like that old dinosaur, the 6.5X55 Swedish.

The 6.5 Swedish can only propel a 143 grain bullet at 2850 FPS.
Meanwhile the 6.5 Creedmoor can propel a 143 grain bullet at 2710 FPS.

??? Oh wait, that is less velocity.
I guess that the Creedmoor has to go on that list of extinct cartridges as well.
It's ballistics are inferior to that 120+ year old dinosaur.

 

[horsemen61]

Stump it’s not apples to apples long action vs short action

 

[Old Stumpy]

Stump it’s not apples to apples long action vs short action

The ballistics speak for themselves. If the Swedish is obsolete then the Creedmoor is too.
Repackaging obsolete ballistics in a shorter package doesn't change anything.

 

[Zoogster]

...

 

[horsemen61]

Folks let’s get a couple of things straight!

1.) No one is saying the 6.5x55 is obsolete!

2.) The 6.5 Creedmoor wasn’t designed to go up against the 6.5x55!

Now can we please discuss the merits of this cartridge for what it is! Not about what it isn’t!

Thank you

 

[LoonWulf]

Cartridges like that old dinosaur, the 6.5X55 Swedish.

The 6.5 Swedish can only propel a 143 grain bullet at 2850 FPS.
Meanwhile the 6.5 Creedmoor can propel a 143 grain bullet at 2710 FPS.

??? Oh wait, that is less velocity.
I guess that the Creedmoor has to go on that list of extinct cartridges as well.
It's ballistics are inferior to that 120+ year old dinosaur.

Stump it’s not apples to apples long action vs short action

we've gone round and round about the CM vs the x55, or .270, or or or.
so lemme just do a quick re cap....
"mine are better"
"nuh uh"
"yuh huh!"

spew skewed statistics

sound bout right?

there's plenty of reason to chose any cartridge should a person care to look. If you handload you have more options in terms of rare cartridges, but even non handloaders can chose almost any cartridge that was/is mainstream and order ammo. I doubt that's gonna change any time soon.

 

[Old Stumpy]

we've gone round and round about the CM vs the x55, or .270, or or or.

Quite true. And every time someone posts a 6.5 Creedmoor fanboy thread, they seem to demand that everyone agree with them that it is the best cartridge in the world. When that inevitably fails, a week goes by and then another fanboy retitles the same thread and reposts it, hoping for a different result.
Here's a thought. If you don't like disagreement then don't ask for opinions.

 

[MCMXI]

I did my part at the bank today by convincing my loan officer that he doesn't need a 6.5 Creedmoor. He and his kids all hunt with 7mm-08 Rems and there's absolutely no reason for him to switch, unless he wants to buy a 6.5 CM from me!

I have rifles chambered in 6.5 CM, 6.5x47mm Lapua and 6.5 PRC. My favorite of the three is the Lapua …. by a long shot.

Now can we please discuss the merits of this cartridge for what it is! Not about what it isn’t!

That's kind of like discussing the merits of a Shelby Cobra kit car … what it isn't is a big part of the conversation …. something like $1,000,000 big parts!

 

[Old Stumpy]

Folks let’s get a couple of things straight!

1.) No one is saying the 6.5x55 is obsolete!

2.) The 6.5 Creedmoor wasn’t designed to go up against the 6.5x55!

Now can we please discuss the merits of this cartridge for what it is! Not about what it isn’t!

Thank you

1) The OP stated that anything is welcome with regards to the 6.5 Creedmoor. That means that discussion is not limited to your editorial requirements.
2) Comparisons to other cartridges are inevitable in discussions of the merits and the negatives of the Creedmoor.
3) IMHO if we allow ourselves to be limited to only stating the merits of the cartridge, then this thread becomes simply an exercise in mutual admiration, and not a real discussion at all.

Thank you

 

[LoonWulf]

2) Comparisons to other cartridges are inevitable in discussions of the merits and the negatives of the Creedmoor.

I agree, but one has to do them fairly.
Both sides of the CM vs ? arguments ignore, over emphasize stats and facts, or state personal opinion as fact.

My personal opinion? given my experience with 3 different CMs.
It's an extremely well designed cartridge that checks all the correct boxes. For non dangerous game at reasonable ranges I think it's quite acceptable.
It excels at low intensity target shooting, and is extremely easy to load for.
It's also a wonderful fit in sub 2.9" magazine boxes which other "mainstream" short action rounds do not fit as well, when used with heavy for Cal vld type bullets.

So....why don't I still own a CM?
well I like Magnums, and weird stuff.
My most recent CM was boring at the ranges I usually shot.
I'd much rather shoot my .375 for entertainment, it can shatter rocks that my CM would knock chunks off of, and a steel gong hit by a 270 btsp launched at 2850 makes a much more resounding bong, than when hit by.....well anything smaller.
For hunting I never used my CMs, tho in other folks hands they killed a dozen or so animals, never taking more than 1 shot.

If I build another sporter rifle on a true medium action, I think I'll do a 6.5x55AI, and see if it can give my 6.5-284 or PRC a run for their money.
Or maybe I'll just buy that sexy Ruger African @Garandimal keeps showing me....wish it was a tang safety. it's also a long action, but rugers longs are a little short.

in a long action I'd rather have a 7mm....which is part of why I have little interest in the .270 even tho I own one.

Again this is all personal preference. I've owned a fairly extensive list of cartridges at this point, and all of them have their positives and negatives, but for the most part (and especially handloaders) I've found little real difference in terms of what I NEED them to do.

 

[someguy2800]

Cartridges like that old dinosaur, the 6.5X55 Swedish.

The 6.5 Swedish can only propel a 143 grain bullet at 2850 FPS.
Meanwhile the 6.5 Creedmoor can propel a 143 grain bullet at 2710 FPS.

??? Oh wait, that is less velocity.
I guess that the Creedmoor has to go on that list of extinct cartridges as well.
It's ballistics are inferior to that 120+ year old dinosaur.

That must be why the 6.5x55 is the highest selling caliber for rifles, and why nobody buys 308’s in favor of 30-06’s or 300 win mags.