6.5 Creedmore for elk?

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Not quite the same, I'm not sure those European moose are the same as our bigger Alaskan ones, and in Scandinavia most of their shots are in the woods about 100 yards or less. I would not hunt moose or bull elk with the 6.5x55, at least not with factory loads (I don't reload), but have taken three cow elk with that caliber. You can see the entrance hold in the shoulder, the insides were mush. View attachment 819963

I thought I posted this a couple of days ago but couldn’t find it, so here goes.

A couple of years ago I did a little research about using 6.5x55 for Alg/moose in Scandinavia. What I gathered is back in the day the 6.5x55 was one of the top one or two cartridges. For a while now there are a number of cartridges that are more popular for moose though.
 
I don't know why I read these threads. I suppose there are some gems within the hyperbole; straw man arguments; knitpicking; and awe and amazement when a person writes that it may not be a good idea to use 6.5CM on the big 5 in Africa (hyperbole intended!)

Generically, I think discussions like this fall into a few traps as we discuss lower charge weight but higher bc cartridges. Here are a few thoughts:

1. A good, on target shot on game can have similar terminal performance as long as the caliber and bullet construction is in the same zip code. We aren't comparing the high velocity grain of rice vs a rainbow trajectory slug (or a similar .224 vs .375.) At least .264, .277, .287, and .308 are reasonably close with what could be similar bullet weight offerings.

2. Bullet construction. This is where some "no free lunch" caveats come into play. Anybody can talk about higher bc with .264 match bullets. There is no argument there. The argument that would come into play would be: does the velocity window for the hunting bullet used match the distance at which game is taken? Additionally, is the additional distance with the higher bc's usable (does it impart enough energy for the bullet to expand appropriately on impact - or does it expand too much)? Also - If higher bc's afford the ability to land a shot at longer distance, does the shooter (and equipment) have the ability to make the shot at that distance?

To think about some of the bullets that could be used for hunting elk:
Nosler ABLR 142gr BC .625
Nosler AB 140gr BC .509
Nosler Partition 140gr BC .490
Hornady ELD-X 143gr BC.625
Woodleigh 140gr PPSN BC .444

Some of these are impressive. But remember, no free lunch.

Even Hornady states the ELD-X has 50-60% weight retention in the 0-400yard range and that this is by design.
https://www.hornady.com/heat-shield#/!/#story

I think I would prefer a higher weight retention for elk, but it is up to the hunter's choice.

Bonded bullets are great for weight retention, but give up some in terms of group size - ie there are no bonded match bullets. Additionally they use dead soft lead and thick plated jackets in manufacturing. Depending on your shot location and distance, you may not get an exit wound.

The partition is absolutely going to perform and give you two holes (as long as it doesn't crack in half - haha), but gives up some in BC (you have to keep those spitzer points from flattening!) and some in accuracy due to the "three part bullet".

The Woodleigh is an incredibly tough bullet, but gives up more in BC.

I'm not using this to rag on all these choices. It's just to say that the "best BC with the best terminal performance" bullet doesn't exist, regardless of what the brass wrapper is. You have to make a choice to the detriment of another factor.

3. One more...the "I need low recoil to practice more" argument. Sure, everyone needs to practice. That isn't at issue. The issue here is knowing the game animal. An elk has a kill zone of approximately 16" (some are bigger/smaller due to the size of the animal). We aren't talking about needing sub moa at ethical ranges here. Also, hunting isn't a lot of shots. It's a lot of waiting for one shot (more if you can get them)...and you're not at a bench or on your shooting mat... and you have to be ready and alert to shoot since the game animal isn't on the hunter's schedule. All that to say - most hunters (or people who shoot regularly) do not need an inordinate amount of practice to hit a 16" target at 400 yards (basically 4moa). If you're trying to go longer on an elk, knowing your hold over isn't enough. A spotter with a wind call is more important at that point.

Maybe I'm just crotchety, but these "low recoil, high bc" hunting threads all seem to go the same way. There are a lot of opinions out there. My main idea is that there are benefits and detriments to choices. There is no wonder caliber and there is more to this story than simply "high bc bullets.) The 6.5CM has detriments too in regard to elk hunting.
 
I agree about the practice comment. I'm a good shot with my hunting rifles, but they're all accurate bolt action guns with good Leupold glass on them. At typical hunting distances (even out west where I hunt), given the targets I'm trying to hit, it isn't hard to be sufficiently accurate. I've also been shooting and hunting for over 30 of my 40 years on this earth so it doesn't take a tremendous amount of trigger time to keep myself proficient with my hunting rifles. As I typically mention in these kinds of threads, recoil in my hunting rifles is really far down my list of considerations.
 
Don’t judge a hunting bullet by how it performs when everything is perfect, judge it by what it can do when one or more variables are less than perfect.

I don’t see any reason a 140g bullet can’t kill an elk, but you have to deliver the proper amount of energy to the vitals. So if you use a igniter bullet, you have to keep the speed up, and that means shorter range. On an elk, I want to deliver 1500ft/lbs ideally, and 1000 minimum. The better the shot opportunity, the more I’ll compromise on energy, and therefore the longer the allowable range. All that is to say, don’t be that guy that takes a 1000yd shot on an elk with a Creemdmore, and delivers 300 ft/lbs. it might work some or even most of the time, but when it doesn’t it will be epic.
 
Some natives hunt moose with .22 LR here. They shoot head shots at close range. I am not advocating this, but they sometimes do it, maybe out of necessity. OP's wife was given a 6.5 Creedmore or Creedmor, now I am confused on that one. It is what she has. I am sure if she hits the vitals within 100 yards it will be enough, with any readily available hunting load. I am in the get as close as you can and take your best shot clan. But I don't hunt the Great Plains. I might have to shoot over a lake, though. If I go moose hunting (no elks around here), I will take my .30-06 because I have one, but I would also shoot one with my .270 Win. and good bullets, ideally not the 150 grains PowerPoints I use for deer, or even my .30-30 loaded with 170 grains within 100, preferably 75 yards (iron sights only on that one). These big animals are not tanks, but they don't deserve a slow and painful agony. Use the best you have or can use, get as close as possible, pass on bad shots, know your limitations and those of your equipment. Hunting is not paper shooting nor ringing steel. This thread did start as a hunting question, right? Who cares what a round does at 700 yards when we discuss hunting? It is too far, period. Only a handful of people have business shooting at game that far away and I am humble enough to accept I am not one of them. My guess is they would use some other caliber for that.
 
Federal Premium Nosler Accubond

6.5 Creedmoor 140gr - 2,725 fps
.270 Winchester 140gr - 2,950 fps

So what? I've personally used the same bullets to 2,920 fps in a .270 Win and 2,760 fps in 6.5 Creed. They both performed similarly and they both performed well. I could have loaded both higher, but even at those levels, neither is a "short range woods cartridge that pulls off long range magic" or whatever nonsense you keep spouting.

It's obvious that you don't have any experience with the topic at hand, but are bound and determined to shout down a bunch of folks who do, why is that? Willful ignorance isn't a good look.

Obviously... a target cartridge that duplicates the 6.5 Swede in the field is somehow "blessed" as a game cartridge superior to the mediocre .270 Win.

"Religion - the belief in things unseen - is a wonderful thing."


This has been pointed out repeatedly but he just keeps posting the same nonsense wile totally failing to address the facts. I think he may be a bot.

Let us pray.

As for the ~ 3-400 lb-ft difference in energy at the animal? You may not want it for an elk or moose out to 300 yards.

But it's there with a little extra recoil in the .270 Win.




GR
 
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Ballistic coefficient means nothing to the terminal target. Sectional density, frontal area, velocity and weight are the only things which matter in a hunting round/bullet. BC's only concern is getting the projectile where the shooter physically points the barrel which may or may not be where he aimed it....but that's another matter.

Also, there are some bullets(Sierra) which have a lower BC but beat out higher BC competitors at long range due to their design. They handle the transonic transition with much less yaw moment. I've seen high BC bullets go erratic on targets past their 1140 or so FPS barrier(transonic depending on atmospherics and altitude) while the Sierra Match Kings exhibit very little or at least less unexpected upset at the same lower velocities.

I don't know exactly when this fad of everyone going all gaga over high BC started...but the only place talking BC really belongs is long distance match shooting. I've seen guys use high BC match bullets on game with ridiculously poor performance, retention(when the animals finally died) and wound channels.
 
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I do like the 6.5 CM, it is great cartridge but a great Elk cartridge it is not IMHO. Others will say it's enough with the right bullet placed in the right spot, but then; so is a 223 with the same criteria.. It doesn't make it a good choice. My little brother shot a cow elk with a 243 a number of years ago. Placement was good center mass chest cavity shot, we weren't able to find it till the next morning, already eaten partially by either wolves or coyotes. It was a total loss meat wise, and we found it quite a distance away. Did it kill it? Yeah. Would I recomend it? Heck no. The Point is I error on the side of caution. I would rather go on the large side than pushing the limit of how small I can go. I dropped this guy at 509 yards with my 338 win mag 4 weeks ago.
View attachment 818339
I recovered from the recoil quick enough to see his legs go in the air through my rifle scope. He dropped right there. Would that have happened if I was using my 6.5 CM? I dont know. I suspect not.

I'm with you, although I've taken two cow elk with a 6.5x55, from now on I'll use my .30-'06 with 180s. It is a fairly heavy Sako Finnbear so recoil isn't a big issue over the Swede. I year ago I muffed a shot on an Axis deer with the 6.5x55 and never found it. It took out a chunk of bone, I can't help but wonder if it might have turned out differently with my .30-'06. Murphy's Law, you know......
 
More than likely it would've turned out different. Light skinny bullets deflect off of bone easily.
 
It wouldn't have
When we're talking about impact on bone, I disagree.
I've shot my fairs shareof Axis, and imo while it MIGHT have made a difference, it most likely would not.

I shot two with my 6.5Grendel and 123 amax and had plenty of penetration and wounding to have the animals dead within 30-50yds. IMO The smaller 6.5 dosent generate enough velocity to cause the shock that I prefer, but the damage caused we plenty significant.

One of the Axis bucks I got last trip I shot square in the butt with my .375. Had I not broken his pelvis I'm sure he would have run off, or tried to. The same shot with a 06 or .270, 6.5, or even the .243, would have ended up pretty much the same.
 
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I don't know why I read these threads. I suppose there are some gems within the hyperbole; straw man arguments; knitpicking; and awe and amazement when a person writes that it may not be a good idea to use 6.5CM on the big 5 in Africa (hyperbole intended!)

These days, my response to these threads is "let us know how that works out for ya'..." ;)

I mean hey, it's no skin off my nose one way or the other.
 
The 6.5 Swede has killed countless moose and elk and the 6.5 CM is it's near-twin. But I guess the elk are a lot tougher now than they were back then?:rofl:
 
The 6.5 Swede has killed countless moose and elk and the 6.5 CM is it's near-twin. But I guess the elk are a lot tougher now than they were back then?:rofl:
Elk are just opposed to dying from target cartridges.

I know that the creedmoor will work with a good bullet, but I still prefer a bigger hole. My bull elk was 1100+lbs and a 6.5 of any kind just seems light. It'll work though in the hands of a good shot and experienced hunter.
 
I've shot my fairs shareof Axis, and imo while it MIGHT have made a difference, it most likely would not.

I shot two with my 6.5Grendel and 123 amax and had plenty of penetration and wounding to have the animals dead within 30-50yds. IMO The smaller 6.5 dosent generate enough velocity to cause the shock that I prefer, but the damage caused we plenty significant.

One of the Axis bucks I got last trip I shot square in the butt with my .375. Had I not broken his pelvis I'm sure he would have run off, or tried to. The same shot with a 06 or .270, 6.5, or even the .243, would have ended up pretty much the same.

In your scenario, I'd rather have a bigger bullet hitting that pelvic bone than a smaller one.
 
In your scenario, I'd rather have a bigger bullet hitting that pelvic bone than a smaller one.
my point is simply that any of those rounds would have broken the pelvis on an axis deer.

and if I hadn't broken the pelvis it didn't matter what size round I was shooting the animal still would have tried to run
 
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