6.5 Grendel Barrel

[Okie_Poke]

Hello all. I’m thinking about buying a new barrel for my 6.5 grendel AR and would like some suggestions and feedback. I originally wanted it to wear an 18” barrel but put an Alexander Arms 16” lightweight profile barrel on it because it was in stock and on sale (which was something at the time I first built this rifle). While there’s nothing necessarily wrong with my barrel, I have several reasons for wanting a new one (not the least of which is that I originally wanted the 18” barrel). I’m thinking 18” and a somewhat heavier profile (I’m not yet sure exactly what profile, but am thinking sprish, maybe). I’m not looking to change calibers since I have components and dies already and like the Grendel.

In terms of use case, I use the rifle to hunt deer, hogs, and coyotes. It’s a walking around, shoot-offhand rifle and not a prone-only rifle. But, I do use it to shoot an occasional club match at 300 yards (prone off bipod, rear bag no ears, 15-shot strings). So, I’d like an accurate barrel, but I’m not going to run a bull barrel and am probably not springing for a Bartlien, Krieger, or Lilja. I’m not after the cheapest barrel either, however.

There are quite a few options these days, and I really don’t know what to pick. Wilson Combat has a “recon” profile “match grade” barrel for $285. That seems like a decent deal, assuming it’s a quality barrel. I don’t know anything about their barrels but would expect quality given the name. A Satern Liberty barrel runs $355. I can configure an x-caliber or black hole weaponry barrel for around $500. A criterion is running $600 on precision firearms by the time I flute it and have it bead blasted. There are other options out there too, like faxon, aero, and others.

Do you have experience with any of these, in Grendel or otherwise? Which would you recommend? Any pointers on the profile? Thanks in advance.

 

[Legionnaire]

I bought a 24-inch “Accuracy Barrel” in 6mm ARC from EABCO that I’m happy with. Might see what they have in 6.5 Grendel.

 

[rayatphonix]

I have a Lothar Walther barrel on a very accurate and consistent Grendel bolt action. They make AR barrels also.

 

[js8588]

I have a now-unobtanium Dez Arms for my 18 inch 6.5 Grendel. If I were building it today, this is what I'd get.
https://www.odinworks.com/6-5-Grendel-Barrel-18-Intermid-p/b-6.5-18-int-tg-blk.htm

 

[Varminterror]

Not for nothin’, as they say, but I’ve used something around 30-40 Black Hole Weaponry barrels including several in 264LBC/6.5 G and only ONE of them was ever over $350 (really never over $300 for me, but I was on a builder’s volume discount) unless they included fluting options - fluting smokes the price on any custom barrel, usually adding $150-250 to the non-fluted price. So in general, I just recommend against fluting if you have any concerns with the barrel cost, OR, I recommend that if the aesthetic is sufficiently important to you, then don’t bother about costs… I know I have never had a BHW barrel shoot worse than 1moa with almost any load I’ve tried and really don’t remember any of them (at least those which weren’t chambered for silly things like 458socom) which wouldn’t print 1/2-3/4moa. Folks talk a lot about the delivery and service issues of almost 10yrs ago when they moved shops, but everything I ever ordered from them delivered as ordered and on time, and shot small. I post often on here a photo of two groups as comparison of high velocity spread vs. low ES, one of which is a tall group fired with 123 ELD factory ammo with high extreme spread (78fps), but the group is ~1moa wide, fired at 875 yards. That was a Black Hole Weaponry barrel.

For a hunting and general using rifle, including 6.5 Grendel, I highly recommend a 20” National Match (DCM) contour barrel with rifle length gas. This contour offers sufficient weight to balance forward and steady itself on target, but not so much weight that it becomes ungainly to carry. It’s a relatively heavy (usually ~1”) body up to the gas block then 0.75” from block to muzzle. 20” balances and handles well, and runs smoothly and reliably with a rifle length gas system with any buffer set up you might choose behind it. An AGB is always nice, but not as critical for this barrel design as it is for some others. 18” NM/DCM with rifle length gas will also behave quite well, or midlength gas will notably change the handling responsiveness if you want a bit more “run and gun” than “reach long”, as that 2” barrel shift and 3” gas shoulder shift moves the balance a lot, without really moving the barrel design very far. Somewhere between 18” middy and 20” rifle is perfect for a general use rifle.

 

[Okie_Poke]

I have a now-unobtanium Dez Arms for my 18 inch 6.5 Grendel. If I were building it today, this is what I'd get.
https://www.odinworks.com/6-5-Grendel-Barrel-18-Intermid-p/b-6.5-18-int-tg-blk.htm

That Odin barrel does look interesting.

Not for nothin’, as they say, but I’ve used something around 30-40 Black Hole Weaponry barrels including several in 264LBC/6.5 G and only ONE of them was ever over $350 (really never over $300 for me, but I was on a builder’s volume discount) unless they included fluting options - fluting smokes the price on any custom barrel, usually adding $150-250 to the non-fluted price. So in general, I just recommend against fluting if you have any concerns with the barrel cost, OR, I recommend that if the aesthetic is sufficiently important to you, then don’t bother about costs… I know I have never had a BHW barrel shoot worse than 1moa with almost any load I’ve tried and really don’t remember any of them (at least those which weren’t chambered for silly things like 458socom) which wouldn’t print 1/2-3/4moa. Folks talk a lot about the delivery and service issues of almost 10yrs ago when they moved shops, but everything I ever ordered from them delivered as ordered and on time, and shot small. I post often on here a photo of two groups as comparison of high velocity spread vs. low ES, one of which is a tall group fired with 123 ELD factory ammo with high extreme spread (78fps), but the group is ~1moa wide, fired at 875 yards. That was a Black Hole Weaponry barrel.

For a hunting and general using rifle, including 6.5 Grendel, I highly recommend a 20” National Match (DCM) contour barrel with rifle length gas. This contour offers sufficient weight to balance forward and steady itself on target, but not so much weight that it becomes ungainly to carry. It’s a relatively heavy (usually ~1”) body up to the gas block then 0.75” from block to muzzle. 20” balances and handles well, and runs smoothly and reliably with a rifle length gas system with any buffer set up you might choose behind it. An AGB is always nice, but not as critical for this barrel design as it is for some others. 18” NM/DCM with rifle length gas will also behave quite well, or midlength gas will notably change the handling responsiveness if you want a bit more “run and gun” than “reach long”, as that 2” barrel shift and 3” gas shoulder shift moves the balance a lot, without really moving the barrel design very far. Somewhere between 18” middy and 20” rifle is perfect for a general use rifle.

That’s a pretty solid recommendation, @Varminterror. Thanks, as always, for your detailed and thoughtful response. The fluting is adding to the cost, for sure. I was adding it more for weight-savings than anything. I was also thinking it might dissipate heat better over those match strings, but I don’t know how much that actually matters. Not fluting drops price down to $335.

Please school me a bit on gas system length for the Grendel. I think I am going to stubbornly stick with the 18” barrel. I may regret it later, but there’s something about an 18” that appeals to me. I gather from your post and my readings elsewhere that an 18” Grendel can use either mid- or rifle-length gas systems. Criterion and Odin both apparently use an “intermediate” length between those two on 18” barrels. Besides barrel weight and balance, what else do I need to be considering here? I think I understand the shorter system will use more gas to cycle the action because of the longer dwell time, and the longer system should work the action less violently, but I don’t know what I don’t know here. I was leaning toward rifle length if I didn’t get a barrel with an intermediate gas system, but I don’t have a good reason. My rifle currently has a standard rifle buffer tube and spring. I may want to run it suppressed at times. I’m open to an adjustable gas block but would be fine running without one too.

Thanks again for the great feedback here!

Edit to ask: I’m assuming black hole’s grendel is now a saami chamber for the “type 2” bolt. I see they list 264 lbc separately. My memory is they were pushing “type 1” bolts back when I first built this rifle. I want to stay on the saami chamber.

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

Very similar goals for shooting. My light weight.
FaXoN Match series 6.5 Grrr easily under MOA and VERY carry friendly at (6.6lbs) It's very reasonable cost also was a factor.

 

[js8588]

That Odin barrel does look interesting.



That’s a pretty solid recommendation, @Varminterror. Thanks, as always, for your detailed and thoughtful response. The fluting is adding to the cost, for sure. I was adding it more for weight-savings than anything. I was also thinking it might dissipate heat better over those match strings, but I don’t know how much that actually matters. Not fluting drops price down to $335.

Please school me a bit on gas system length for the Grendel. I think I am going to stubbornly stick with the 18” barrel. I may regret it later, but there’s something about an 18” that appeals to me. I gather from your post and my readings elsewhere that an 18” Grendel can use either mid- or rifle-length gas systems. Criterion and Odin both apparently use an “intermediate” length between those two on 18” barrels. Besides barrel weight and balance, what else do I need to be considering here? I think I understand the shorter system will use more gas to cycle the action because of the longer dwell time, and the longer system should work the action less violently, but I don’t know what I don’t know here. I was leaning toward rifle length if I didn’t get a barrel with an intermediate gas system, but I don’t have a good reason. My rifle currently has a standard rifle buffer tube and spring. I may want to run it suppressed at times. I’m open to an adjustable gas block but would be fine running without one too.

Thanks again for the great feedback here!

Edit to ask: I’m assuming black hole’s grendel is now a saami chamber for the “type 2” bolt. I see they list 264 lbc separately. My memory is they were pushing “type 1” bolts back when I first built this rifle. I want to stay on the saami chamber.

Black Hole barrels do have a reputation for accuracy, but also for getting shot out relatively quickly. The reason I recommended the Odin is, like my Dez barrel, it's nitride treated which should extend service life significantly.

 

[Varminterror]

I’m assuming black hole’s grendel is now a saami chamber for the “type 2” bolt. I see they list 264 lbc separately. My memory is they were pushing “type 1” bolts back when I first built this rifle. I want to stay on the saami chamber.

There is no standard for bolt face depth in the SAAMI spec. Both Type I and II use SAAMI chamber dimensions. Type I bolts use a .125” bolt face depth, Type II bolts use a .136” bolt face depth. That’s the difference - just the bolt face depth, the chambers are exactly the same, both are made with SAAMI spec chambers. But they are not interchangeable - a Type I bolt with a chamber cut for a Type II bolt won’t close, and a Type II bolt behind a chamber cut for a Type I will have excessive headspace, but BOTH will have SAAMI chambers in front of them. A lot of folks recommend Type II as it is - supposedly - a stronger bolt design, but believing that requires you to believe that removing MORE metal somehow strengthens the bolt, and requires you to completely ignore how many thousands of rifles have fired how many millions of rounds with 7.62x39 and 6.5 Grendel from Type I bolts in the last ~20yrs.

You’re confusing the (dumb) Satern “Grendel II” chamber, or rather throat design with the Type I or II bolt designs. Satern decided to make short throats with compound angle leades, which they call their “Grendel II” chamber, which complicates life for no reason - an answer to a problem nobody had. Grendel II is not the same differentiation as Type I or Type II.

I would not personally buy a Satern Grendel II chamber.

Personally, I think the “reputation” BHW barrels get for wearing out fast comes from folks which have never owned one, but are willing to regurgitate that “polygonal rifling wears faster because it doesn’t have deep, well defined lands.” I’ve typically found the opposite - poly rifling doesn’t create as much in-bore resistance nor as much bullet/jacket deformation, so it shoots FAST, cleans easy, and frankly, should last longer. Not enough difference that I would bother to specifically buy poly rifled barrels, and cut rifled barrels remain to lead the world in performance, but I don’t think that particular legend has any legs. I’ve burned out a few 223 and one 243LBC (6 Grendel) BHW barrel, I can’t say they lasted any shorter than any other barrel I have used.

 

[CraigC]

I built two 6.5 AR's. One an 18" with a Grendel Hunter upper. The other a 16" with a Faxon barrel. There's over a pound difference in weight. Some of that is in the optic, some in the buttstock and some in the barrel. I very much like the lightweight bronze rifle better than the heavier tungsten. It's right at 7lbs empty.

 

[Varminterror]

Please school me a bit on gas system length for the Grendel. I think I am going to stubbornly stick with the 18” barrel. […] I gather from your post and my readings elsewhere that an 18” Grendel can use either mid- or rifle-length gas systems. Criterion and Odin both apparently use an “intermediate” length between those two on 18” barrels. Besides barrel weight and balance, what else do I need to be considering here? I think I understand the shorter system will use more gas to cycle the action because of the longer dwell time, and the longer system should work the action less violently, but I don’t know what I don’t know here. I was leaning toward rifle length if I didn’t get a barrel with an intermediate gas system, but I don’t have a good reason. My rifle currently has a standard rifle buffer tube and spring. I may want to run it suppressed at times. I’m open to an adjustable gas block but would be fine running without one too.

Shorter systems have higher port pressures. Shorter systems, given the same barrel length, also have longer dwell time, meaning longer time exposed to pressure, aka, more flow. P1*V(dot)1 = P2*V(dot)2, and pressure is our driving force with flow time being our exposure duration, so more pressure or more flow means more net force exposure and more movement in the carrier piston. I had a 9” Grendel with pistol length gas, only ~4.5” of dwell, but huge operating pressure potential (throttled by a small port, naturally).

What people forget here: the port diameter influences pressure in the gas system, as well as restricts flow. So we can have over or undergassed rifles in any length. Certainly, it’s easier to find ourselves overgassed in a short gas system with a longer barrel, but that port diameter is a critical aspect that too many guys forget online. My personal 18” Grendels have been carbine, mid, and rifle length - they all have ran reliably. My last 20” Grendel was rifle length, my current 18” 6.8 SPC (really the same pressure curve) is mid-length. I wouldn’t get carbine, and admittedly, I have tended to avoid intermediate length because it’s just that much harder to find gas tubes, but it works. Flip a coin between mid, int, and rifle; the balance will be much, much more noticeable than the difference in action cycling.

One twist: if you are concealing the gas block under the handguard and decide you want an AGB (which I highly recommend) to help manage your suppressed vs. non-suppressed changes, then you may want a longer gas system, and might need to consider which gas block you use vs. which handguard to ensure proper free float as well as allow access to the adjustment screw. I’m not above drilling a hole or cutting a moon shape in the edge of an Mlok slot to open access to the screw. So for an intermittently suppressed rifle, an AGB is the easy button. Get a detent adjustable model.

 

[Okie_Poke]

There is no standard for bolt face depth in the SAAMI spec. Both Type I and II use SAAMI chamber dimensions. Type I bolts use a .125” bolt face depth, Type II bolts use a .136” bolt face depth. That’s the difference - just the bolt face depth, the chambers are exactly the same, both are made with SAAMI spec chambers.

I knew the bolt-face-depth difference between Type I and Type II but did not realize you could have a SAAMI chamber behind a Type I bolt. Thanks for clarifying. My Grendel bolts are all Type II, though, so I want to stick with a chamber intended for a Type II bolt.

My personal 18” Grendels have been carbine, mid, and rifle length - they all have ran reliably. My last 20” Grendel was rifle length, my current 18” 6.8 SPC (really the same pressure curve) is mid-length. I wouldn’t get carbine, and admittedly, I have tended to avoid intermediate length because it’s just that much harder to find gas tubes, but it works. Flip a coin between mid, int, and rifle; the balance will be much, much more noticeable than the difference in action cycling.

This is good confirmation--sounds like I'd have to try to screw it up, and maybe not even then.

One twist: if you are concealing the gas block under the handguard and decide you want an AGB (which I highly recommend) to help manage your suppressed vs. non-suppressed changes, then you may want a longer gas system, and might need to consider which gas block you use vs. which handguard to ensure proper free float as well as allow access to the adjustment screw. I’m not above drilling a hole or cutting a moon shape in the edge of an Mlok slot to open access to the screw. So for an intermittently suppressed rifle, an AGB is the easy button. Get a detent adjustable model.

Makes sense. Thank you!

 

[Okie_Poke]

The other a 16" with a Faxon barrel.

What barrel contour and gas system length is your Faxon?

Edit to add: those are both pretty rifles, btw.

 

[Okie_Poke]

The reason I recommended the Odin is, like my Dez barrel, it's nitride treated which should extend service life significantly.

I noticed the nitride. I think it looks sharp. I'm not overly concerned about super barrel longevity for this rifle, but it is a consideration.

 

[Varminterror]

My Grendel bolts are all Type II, though, so I want to stick with a chamber intended for a Type II bolt.

Do this.

It does look like BHW offers both 264 LBC with Type I’s and 6.5 Grendel with Type II’s now - I assume as a final concession for the advent of the 6 ARC.

 

[270OKIE]

Hello all. I’m thinking about buying a new barrel for my 6.5 grendel AR and would like some suggestions and feedback. I originally wanted it to wear an 18” barrel but put an Alexander Arms 16” lightweight profile barrel on it because it was in stock and on sale (which was something at the time I first built this rifle). While there’s nothing necessarily wrong with my barrel, I have several reasons for wanting a new one (not the least of which is that I originally wanted the 18” barrel). I’m thinking 18” and a somewhat heavier profile (I’m not yet sure exactly what profile, but am thinking sprish, maybe). I’m not looking to change calibers since I have components and dies already and like the Grendel.

In terms of use case, I use the rifle to hunt deer, hogs, and coyotes. It’s a walking around, shoot-offhand rifle and not a prone-only rifle. But, I do use it to shoot an occasional club match at 300 yards (prone off bipod, rear bag no ears, 15-shot strings). So, I’d like an accurate barrel, but I’m not going to run a bull barrel and am probably not springing for a Bartlien, Krieger, or Lilja. I’m not after the cheapest barrel either, however.

There are quite a few options these days, and I really don’t know what to pick. Wilson Combat has a “recon” profile “match grade” barrel for $285. That seems like a decent deal, assuming it’s a quality barrel. I don’t know anything about their barrels but would expect quality given the name. A Satern Liberty barrel runs $355. I can configure an x-caliber or black hole weaponry barrel for around $500. A criterion is running $600 on precision firearms by the time I flute it and have it bead blasted. There are other options out there too, like faxon, aero, and others.

Do you have experience with any of these, in Grendel or otherwise? Which would you recommend? Any pointers on the profile? Thanks in advance.

How about this?
20in DMR (medium-ish) profile fluted barrel.
On "sale" for $206.

 

[CraigC]

What barrel contour and gas system length is your Faxon?

Edit to add: those are both pretty rifles, btw.

Mid-length gas. Thanks!

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/102178005

 

[js8588]

How about this?
20in DMR (medium-ish) profile fluted barrel.
On "sale" for $206.
View attachment 1151858

Friends don't let friends buy Ballistic Advantage or Faxon. QC/Accuracy is a crap shoot.

If you're going to buy a 20 inch, get the Proof Research https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019040646?pid=330571
Yeah, pricey, but they're cut rifled tack drivers.

 

[greyling22]

I have a ballistic advantage 16" yanson profile barrel. It's about a 1 moa barrel.

I have a Wilson combat 11" 300 hamr barrel. It shoot about 1 moa, maybe a little better. It's kind of hard to say, because I only have a 7x scope on the gun.

 

[Varminterror]

Odin, Faxon, and BA don't get my money. BA are the belle of this trio, with the other two being far more a crap shoot in my experience, but I've not built on a BA barrel which wowed me - milquetoast performance.

 

[adcoch1]

Odin, Faxon, and BA don't get my money. BA are the belle of this trio, with the other two being far more a crap shoot in my experience, but I've not built on a BA barrel which wowed me - milquetoast performance.

I've seen ONE really good Odin, and several with issues, but that one was great. A buddy had me build him an upper with a ballistic advantage, and I also was not incredibly impressed with it.

 

[js8588]

I've seen ONE really good Odin, and several with issues, but that one was great. A buddy had me build him an upper with a ballistic advantage, and I also was not incredibly impressed with it.

I've heard about Odin barrels with issues and ones that were hammers. They do come with an MOA guarantee in writing, so if you get a bad one, you do have recourse.

 

[Varminterror]

I've heard about Odin barrels with issues and ones that were hammers. They do come with an MOA guarantee in writing, so if you get a bad one, you do have recourse.

Most barrel manufacturers do have customer satisfaction policies, whether it’s a warranty, guarantee, or just a promise.

But what’s the point in jacking around with quality proofing a manufacturer’s product and going through the hassle of customer service, adding cost to your barrel in wasted ammo and return shipping, wasting time to hope the next one doesn’t have the same problems? Why roll the dice when there are prettier girls at the dance, who cook better too?

 

[js8588]

Most barrel manufacturers do have customer satisfaction policies, whether it’s a warranty, guarantee, or just a promise.

But what’s the point in jacking around with quality proofing a manufacturer’s product and going through the hassle of customer service, adding cost to your barrel in wasted ammo and return shipping, wasting time to hope the next one doesn’t have the same problems? Why roll the dice when there are prettier girls at the dance, who cook better too?

Because for me, at the moment, no such creature exists. If I were in the market for an 18 inch 6.5 Grendel barrel, I'd want not-rifle-length gas (I prefer a perhaps slightly overgassed systen that I can tune with buffer and buffer spring vs something that might be softer shooting but on the edge of reliability) and either nitride treated or chrome lined to extend barrel life and increase corrosion resistance. I have no interest in bare steel barrels. The only barrel on the market presently meeting my criteria is the Odinworks. BA/Aero may make something similar, as does Faxon, but I have zero confidence in them. BA/Aero also OEMs for SOLGW and BKings, so those are out. That leaves me with Odin. Yes, I've heard about occasional chamber issues with their barrels, but far less frequently than the other mid-tier brands. If I were to get a lemon, I know their CS will take care of it.

That said, I'm beyond autistic when it comes to AR Builds. Most people aren't my level of picky. In short, YMMV.

 

[Varminterror]

If “picky” implies favoring chromies, then you can keep them.

I’m much more “picky” about performance in my rifles, and those for my customers.