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6.5 Grendel vs 308

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by PublicEnemy, Feb 1, 2012.

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  1. PublicEnemy

    PublicEnemy Member

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    I know, there are many threads about this. But couldn't quite find the info I want after hours of searching. I have a few questions!
    First off. I plan on buying a new rifle. I havent decided if I want a ar-15 in 6.5 Grendel with a 20 inch barrel or the bushmaster 308 moe (don't give me suggestions since this is all my budget allOws me currently). .
    My questions are, which is better for medium sized game with the given barrel lengths.
    Which has more long range ability with the given barrel lengths
    And lastly which has better terminal ballistics at any given range with the barrel lengths.
    As a side not my Max practical shooting range will be around 700 Max with either of these 2 rifles.
    So which do you guys suggest I should go with?
     
  2. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    OK I am a huge 6.5 fan, but the 308 is a better medium game caliber vs the Grendal, simply due to it's versitility and sheer energy. Now if you were looking at 308 vs 260 rem, 6.5 Creedmore or 6.5x55 I will go 6.5 every time, because they have better external ballistics and are darn close on energy. 6.5x55 has been the best hunting rifle I have ever used hands down, it kicks so light I can watch my bullets hit through the scope (@ only 6lbs), hits so hard I have never had to track anything...ever, it makes less noise then a .38 cal handgun, and is scarry accurate with darn near every handload I have ever tried. If there were ever a perfect hunting rifle that is it.
     
  3. PublicEnemy

    PublicEnemy Member

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    Thanks for the reply! But yeah I totally get what your saying. But the 308 is coming out of a 16 inch tube. I know that affects it somewhat, but not sure how much. And I have also read the the 6.5 Grendel catches up with the energy of a 308 at around 650-700 yards?
     
  4. CooterShooter

    CooterShooter Member

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    I'm also a huge 6.5 fan, but I've never used it for hunting, while I have hunted with more 308 rifles than I can name, and I've never been disappointed. Right off the bat I'd have to recommend 308 for that reason, but more importantly for availability and economics. The best factory 308 vs. the best factory 6.5 are going to cost about the same, but when you want to go plinking, cheap 308 surplus is readily available, whereas 6.5 will almost always approach factory prices in cost.

    To give you an idea of what I mean, compare the only 6.5 listing to over 18 308 listings, of varied quality/value.
     
  5. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    VERY few anamals are shot at 650+ yd, neither the 6.5 Grendal or 308 have enough speed for proper bullet expansion at those ranges anyway. 308s in genral make for a very good genral purpose hunting rifles, but the 6.5s beat them for retained energy, wind drift and trajectory. If you wanted a semi auto I would look hard at an AR-10 platform in 260 or 6.5 Creedmore. If hunting out to 700 yards is your goal forget short barrels and semi autos all together, a heavy barrel Savage or Tikka in a super long range caliber like 6.5-284, 7mm rem mag or 270 WSM is a MUST. Lesser calibers will not even retain expansion speeds at that kind of range, hence they simply will not be any good for hunting.
    Even top of the line semi autos are limited to aprox 500yd due to retained erergy and accuracy which is always less then a really good bolt action.
     
  6. chris in va

    chris in va Member

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    The Grendel is closer to a 7.62x39 than 308.
     
  7. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Member

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    That could mean different things to different people. The Grendel well take deer size game with good bullet placement. A .308 from your 16" would be more powerful. Your are comparing a 100-123gr bullet to a 168-175 gr bullet. The Grendel is a long range target round that really does well past 800yds where the .308 starts to slow down.
     
  8. 303tom

    303tom member

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    The 6.5 Grendel is built off the 7.62x39, but it sure as heck ain`t no .308, you would have to come up to the 6.5x55 to match the .308. Then you just as well have a AG42.
     
  9. Tirod

    Tirod Member

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    Some fundamentals haven't been covered in selecting either. If this is a hunting rifle, what type game is being shot at 650m? Where do you practice at those ranges to sight in?

    The typical hunter of game usually fires at whitetail deer under 150m, mostly because that's the effective sightline in broken woodland hunting them. If it's antelope, maybe out to 450m. Most guides will attempt to stalk closer rather than accept the risk their client is any good at long distance. The effects of wind alone dictate the problem, most shooters can't call it and compensate. Simply not enough training or range time, regardless of the quality of the weapon.

    Given the typical circumstances, the intermediate cartridges will deliver 1000 foot pounds out to 350m, which is more than sufficient for the average hunter.

    Step up beyond 500 pound animals, .308 would be preferred, and hunters of elk, moose, bear, etc don't even try much beyond 350m, either. Again, proficiency at reading wind and bullet drop is critical. At 650m, it's measured in feet, not inches.

    Please describe what target, at what typical range will be shot 85% of the time, and go back to determine what cartridge you really need, as the "One Vs. Other" choice is a flawed comparison. The ballistics and choice of weapon are too different to consider interchangeable for the same game, and in practice, they are very much different after a long day in the field.
     
  10. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    No 308 or 30-06 I ever loaded would match my 6.5x55 handloads as far as external ballistics go. Compare them all with top of the line bullets at max load.
    6.5x55 140gr VLD hunting (.612 BC)
    23" barrel 2800fps
    200yd zero, 500yd impact -41" 10 mph crosswind 14" drift

    308 210gr VLD hunting (.631 BC)
    24" barrel 2400 fps
    200yd zero, 500yd impact -58" 10pmh crosswind 18" drift

    30-06 210gr VLD hunting (.631 BC)
    24" barrel 2650fps
    200 yd zero, 500yd impact -46" 10mph crosswind 15" drift

    You have to step up to the 300 win mag to beat the little 6.5 Sweed at long ranged ballistics.
     
  11. Tirod

    Tirod Member

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    Well, now someone has introduced a different cartridge which the OP didn't ask about.

    In Before The Lock.

    Wasn't me.
     
  12. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    ^ :) ^ I told him he should consider a 260 rem (the 6.5x55s ballistic twin) if he wanted a long ranged semi-auto, it is a major step up in performance from either the 6.5 Grendal or 308 Win. Since it uses the 308 case it is interchangable in many 308 based firearms.
     
  13. henschman

    henschman Member

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    I would go for the .308 just based on ammo price. The fact is that either one will be perfectly adequate for hunting medium-sized game at any kind of range that you will ever need to take a shot.

    But being that you're buying a fun semi-auto rifle, I would assume that you're going to do more with it than hunt -- at least I would hope so! It would be really nice to be able to buy range blasting ammo for under $0.50 per round. At current .308 prices, you can get steel cased Russian stuff for $0.35-0.40 per round, Prvi Partizan brass case reloadable ammo for around $0.50 per round, and NATO surplus non-reloadable for everywhere in between.

    If you're into hand-loading, the price difference isn't as much of a big deal. But since I'm not, and since I like to do a lot of shooting, I stick mostly to standard military cartridges.
     
  14. PublicEnemy

    PublicEnemy Member

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    I do not intend to take any deer at 600-700 yards.
    Lol. I am also saving up for a 338 rum for very long range shots. I just wanted a cartridge that I can get out to 700 yards decently easily and still have enough power to say take down a man sized target. I have enough room to shoot to about 900 yards where I live. I was looking at a ar-10 in 260 but right now I don't have the funds to build a nice 260 gun. Should of stAted it earlier but I just want to be able to take out a man sized target at 700 and probably do not intend to hunt much with this gun. But obviously wouldn't mind the cartridge that has more power at 700 yards. I just wasn't sure if a 308 out of a 16 inch barrel can beat a 6.5 out of a 20?
     
  15. PublicEnemy

    PublicEnemy Member

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    Henschman. You are right. I do plan on shooting it a lot for more than just huntin lol. But I would also like this gun to be a gun I could rely on for home defense, etc. It truly will be multi purpose, with main purpose bein that it needs to take down a man sized target from 500-700 yards, but also be a decent close quarters gun. I like the idea of having a close quarters gun that can hit 700 yards. I know, not realistically ever going to happen, but a fellow can dream lol!
     
  16. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    I cannot say I have ever seen a case of civilian self defence that involved 700 yd shots, 7 feet is avarage LOL That said a 308 semi auto loaded with 125gr Ballistic tips is sure to be an A++ manstopper within realistic home defence ranges. Just change over to 150 or 165 gr before you take it in the woods for deer.
     
  17. PublicEnemy

    PublicEnemy Member

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    Kachok- yeah, very un realistic ha! But I'm the type of person who likes to think out every given possible situation and be prepared no matter how far fetched ha. I know 308 is a great man stopper lol. But I was trying to figure out if 6.5 Grendel does it just as well, with less recoil, less weight, and also the same lethality at 700 yards? Now given that scenario what do you say. Im leaning towards 308 maybe in a bushmaster 20 inch hunter and mounting a 4-12 on it.
     
  18. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    I actualy would not give the 6.5 Grendal an edge at long range as far as stopping power goes. Even if the energy is the same there is something to be said for larger caliber, heavier bullet with more momentum, especaly if both bullets are below expansion speeds. + the 175 SMKs the US Army uses don't have to expand, they yaw on contact making a larger then expected wound at 800yd. The rest of the 6.5 cult might burn me alive for bad mouthing the 6.5 Grendal, but I don't like the way they hyped it up using long barrel bolt actions with overpressure loads, their real world performance while better then the 223 or 6.8SPC is nothing spectacular.
    The 308 can carry deer killing (man stopping) energy and expansion speeds out to 600 yd, the 6.5 Grendel will only do that out to 350yd in the real world.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012
  19. Owen Sparks

    Owen Sparks member

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    The 6.5 and 6.8 are NOT the best rifle rounds, but they are the best rounds that will fit into a regular small AR frame. If you wan't to step up to a .308 you have to go to a bigger heavier AR-10 platform. This will make a LOT of difference if you have to carry it all day.

    BTW, the 6.5 Grendel does fairly well at long range because of the high balistic coeficent of the long sleek bullet it uses. Within standard hunting ranges of about 300 yards or less the 6.8 will do just as well if not slightly better. I have two 6.8 AR's and could not be more pleased.
     
  20. PublicEnemy

    PublicEnemy Member

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    Thanks for the replies guys! Now you guys have opened up my new dilemma ha. I have decided to step up to a ar-10 type plat form for sure, now the questions is, 308 vs 260.
    Difference in feeding reliability, still knockdown power at 700 yards, and all that good stuff menti
     
  21. PublicEnemy

    PublicEnemy Member

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    mentioned earlier, i understand the 308 throws a heavier bullet, and the 260 a lighter bullet faster. so which has better terminal ballistics from 10-700 yards
     
  22. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    Don't forget 7-08 it is a top contender too, they will all feed about the same. What type and weight of bullets do you like, I can give you a full breakdown on whatever you like. While super heavy VLD designs give the best numbers very few people actualy use them, I like Nosler Ballistic tips and Hornady SSTs for their top shelf terminal ballistics.
     
  23. TexasPatriot.308

    TexasPatriot.308 Member

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    when you really need a weapon in a bad situation, .308 will be readily available, most people will say a, 6.5 what? dont think the ammo will be available.
     
  24. PublicEnemy

    PublicEnemy Member

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    Well obviously a lot of my ammo I will be plinking and having fun with is any surplus ammo I can get. With occasi
     
  25. PublicEnemy

    PublicEnemy Member

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    Occasionally using other loads to go to a longer range. Probably a 175 grain?
     
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