6.8 SPC as a hunting cartridge?

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People can and do take deer with rimfires, (I knew an orchard owner once who would give you free venison for the asking), but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Personally, I'd say the same thing about the .223. Since there are more effective rounds out there and we're not talking about a survival situation, why not go with something more optimal like a .243, 30-30, .308 or any of dozens of cartridges that have significantly more power? The 5.56/.223 were cartridges designed to enable soldiers to pack a lot of ammo and for varmint hunters to kill small critters. They're pretty well suited to those tasks, but for 200# deer there much better cartridges out there.
 
The argument that a shooter who can reliably place a shot makes a .223 acceptable for deer fails. I will even grant that there are such shooters. Those shooters are few and far between and it is NOT just the ability to make the shot it is what shot is taken. I know yahoos who can shoot MOA groups all day but in the woods will take a shot at a deer that no-one should take.

I know, I know - that is about the shooter's values not the round used. But surely everyone would agree that the point of impact on most deer killed was less than optimum. Not yours of course, everyone here makes perfect shots. The argument that an optimal hit with a .223 is fine and there are shooters who can do that doesn't address the vast majority who can't or won't. No, I am not saying that more gun makes up for poor shooting. But if most deer are shot at less than optimal points, and THEY ARE, we should all want them shot with more than a .223.

I wonder how many people have come here who haven't fired 100 rounds in their life and have never been in the woods, leave persuaded that the .223 has killed lots of deer and that's what they should use. If you hunt deer with a .223 and you are satisfied with your results, fine. But don't suggest it to anyone you don't know to be equally expert.

Imagine your teenage son says, "there are plenty of drivers who could take that turn at 70." In a serious situation, skill is a dangerous thing to overestimate.
 
Once I find a good cold weather load for the 6.8x43mm (270 Kurtz)I will try it out on some Caribou. Usually I can get within 100 to 150 yards during the winter before they figure out that I am there. You can always tell when the one guy in the herd with ESP figures out you are there.
After the first shot they (the herd) pretty much make the jump to light speed.
 
I have loaded up some 130gr hotcors for my 6.8spc. Haven't had a chance to get the loads worked up yet but can't wait to pop a hog or deer with it. As far as 223's go, be able to hit your target in the vitals and use a good stout loaded 65gr sierra gameking and it will stop any deer or hog that I will ever see or hunt in its tracks. If your taking 400yrd shots at running deer then you need to trade up to something like a 378 weatherby to increase your odds if not picking your shots wisely. Or if your bound and determined to use a AR style rifle, grab a 50 beowulf upper stoked with hot loaded rounds. Might give the 458 socom loaded up with some stout corbons. If that doesnt get the job done I dont know what will.
 
If you aren't using an AR platform, why hamper yourself with the 6.8?


The 243 Win or 260 Remington are much better choices in a bolt action.
 
I was wondering the same thing. Why are we talking about calibers traditionally associated with military style gas guns if your pops is a bolt gun guy?

.243 Win. is a nice, easy-on-the-shoulder round, pretty flat shooting, commonly available, and has killed a ton of deer.
 
The 6.8 SPC has one purpose: to fit a more powerful round than 5.56 in a gun designed for 5.56.

If you're not looking for a deer-hunting AR or Mini-14, I have no idea why you'd even consider 6.8 SPC. As soon as you graduate to standard short-action calibers (.308-based), you have a whole collection to choose from, every one of which is a better hunting round. If you want something "different" that's got great ballistics and low recoil, get a .260. If you want something you can feed with Wal-Mart ammo, get a .243.
 
Regarding the guys original post, it seems that the concern is recoil. He asks for a cartridge with more energy than a 7.62x39 with less or no more recoil. We are not addressing the issue, and we must remember basic physics in response. The bullet energy is identical to the recoil energy minus the weight of the gun. Keeping a constant weight gun, any increase in bullet energy will give a proportionate increase in recoil, caliber being immaterial. It doesn't matter how that bullet energy is increased, be it speed or bullet weight. Bullet diameter is not a factor. Energy is mass (bullet weight) times speed. Within practical terms, energy of any given bullet is restricted by speed--we can't increase speed indefinately. That is why we have bigger calibers to get more energy. Higher energy gives a larger degree of error allowance in regards to killing animals. If one chooses to hunt deer with a .458 Lott, he has a larger degree of error allowance than if he uses a .338 Win Mag, which allows for a bit more error than a .30-06, which allows more error than a .243 and so forth down to a .22 short (which can and has killed deer). Now someone will jump up and down and say that bigger guns DON'T replace skill. Very correct, but the fact is that bigger DOES provide more room for error. Shoot a deer with a .600 Nitro Express and it is going down as long as you hit the body somewhere (and maybeso you are too!). The whole point is that the energy cannot be increased without increasing recoil and bullet diameter is not a factor. Of course the recoil can be counteracted by having a heavier gun. The original poster didn't want a .30-06 because of recoil, and that's fine, but simply for illustration, if that .30-06 were to be a 25# gun, the recoil would be minuscule--not practical, but factual. So, if he wants more energy than a 7.62x39 with no more recoil, he can get it in any number of ways, but the rifle weight must go up enough to compensate for the increase in energy to maintain equal recoil. It is simple physics and can't be altered.
 
The OP is looking for a very low recoil hunting gun for his dad. Since the question about the 6.8 has been answered perhaps he wouldn't mind me suggesting another cartridge.

Palidin Hunter, if you haven't bought anything yet consider a Browning BAR in .243. http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=002B&cat_id=031&type_id=219 The BARs gas action reduces the felt recoil by about 20%. Combine that with the light recoil of the .243 and I'll bet even a little kid could shoot it. I own one in 30-06 and it shoots soft, is accurate, and hits with full authority.

Good Luck and Merry Christmas
Bigfoot
 
moosehunt and bigfoot have it right. Your pops cant go to a more powerful caliber and have the same recoil as the less powerful caliber, unless he goes semi auto. Remington makes an R25, which is their hunting version of the AR 15 chambered in .308 and .243. You might also want to check out a Winchester model 100, chambered in .308. Its going to look like a bolt gun but its semi auto with a 4 round capacity. Heres some options for you...http://gunbroker.com/Auction/Search...SearchType=0&Keywords=remington+.308&Cat=3024

Maybe look into a 357 lever action, if you dont plan on reaching out too far.
 
the 6.8 is basically a 7.62x39 with a smaller bullet. The range is almost equal. The 6.5 is probably a better choice simply because you can put a bigger bullet down range and it will maintain velocity a lot better for a lot longer. It will shoot flatter as well. However, 6.8 is a lot easier to come by. The funny part is that the 6.5 grendel was designed from the 7.62 casing but out performs pretty much anything else in the ar platform as far as range goes. This is assuming that this guy wants to hunt with an ar at a distance.

If he is hunting deer with a .223 at distances farther than the 7.62x39 will shoot then that is probably the problem that he is getting into. His bullets are going to slow to do anything at that distance if he is shooting them out of a short barrel. Even more so if he is using heavy bullets.
 
The 6.8 will have a bit less recoil than a .30-30, about the same as a .243 but it will be a heavier bullet than the .243. The 6.8 is a .270 light and does at 100 yards what a .270 does at 300. I think the 6.8 would be a great woods deer round and I'd love to have one in a cz carbine.
 
The 6.8 is a .270 light and does at 100 yards what a .270 does at 300.

...which is why the 6.8 is sure hard to justify as a hunting cartridge...

If all you want is a 100 yard deer cartridge with low recoil, get a .357 lever gun. The recoil from mine is barely even noticeable, with a hard buttplate. Fun gun, great for plinking, light and handy, too.
 
If all you want is a 100 yard deer cartridge with low recoil, get a .357 lever gun.

Nobody is saying that 6.8 is a hundred yd cartridge he comparison to 270 is simply to show a range where performance is comparable. A 270 win is good game killer well well beyond 300yds just as the 6.8 is out past 100

There's simply no comparison to a 357 at 300yd s a 6.8 spc will still pack more energy than a 357 carbine at 100. I wouldn't hesitate to use either a 6.8 or a properly loaded 7.62x39 on a deer inside 250yds. Try that with a 357 mag

The best thing about the 6.8 is it's ability to fit in the AR15 platform which to me after many years of skepticism I now reguard the best little hunting rifle to come along since the invention of the leveraction


What the heck, I just defended 6.8spc
:eek:
 
at 300yd s a 6.8 spc will still pack more energy than a 357 carbine at 100

Not if the .357 is loaded to its potential -- which isn't to say I'd want it for anything past 100 yards.

Then again, for a larger bullet that doesn't rely on expansion, energy is grossly overrated. All depends on what you want...

Still, why not just use a .243 if you want a 300-yard round for smaller deer?

As I wrote above, if you're not trying to shoehorn it into a gun designed for 5.56, I can't see a reason for someone, who isn't into experimenting with cartridges for the hell of it, to mess with 6.8.
 
with a 180grn .357 xtp loaded to an INSANE 1700fps a 357 carbine would pack 822fpe at 100yds

at a leisurely 2575 fps a 110grn 6.8 bullet packs 878 ft lbs at 300m

so no not even when loaded to well beyond "full potential" will a 100yd .357 equal even a 300yd 6.8



Still, why not just use a .243 if you want a 300-yard round for smaller deer?

As I wrote above, if you're not trying to shoehorn it into a gun designed for 5.56, I can't see a reason for someone, who isn't into experimenting with cartridges for the hell of it, to mess with 6.8.

By your reasoning every hunting rifle in the world would be either a 30-06 or a 375H&H. That's a world I don't want to be a part of:eek:
 
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I just got a 6.8SPC Mini 14 with the same idea as you have for your dad. I haven't shot it yet (don't have time to mess with it during deer season and my range will be closed until March), but I think it will be a great short range cartridge for deer. Not sure there will be much difference between this and the Mini 30 from an effectiveness standpoint, I am just more intrigued by the hunting bullets offered in the 6.8SPC than the Russian. It packs about the same energy as a 30-30 but uses much lighter bullets, so I don't think I'd want to be taking very long shots with it.

Some part of the decision may depend on your dad's attitude about the hunt. Some folks would be crushed if the buck of a lifetime stepped out of the tree line 300 yards away and they had to pass on the shot. If that is your dad, you may be better off with something like a .257 Roberts, .260 Remington (some AR's are or were made for this one), or the afore mentioned .243 Winchester. Recoil will be more than the 6.8SPC in a Mini 14 equivalent weight gun, but not as bad as the .308 or 30-06.

I got the Mini in 6.8SPC to use as a combo hunting carbine and a family fun gun. I'll see how good I can do with the factory sights from 100 yards and determine whether or not I'll need a scope for hunting. Hopefully I'll be reporting on its actual effectiveness next year at this time.
 
The recoil dissertations seem to miss the point somewhat. It is intuitively obvious to the casual observer that a larger caliber will always equal more recoil in a gun of the same weight.

That does not mean that stepping up from a 223 to a 243 or 260 is not a valid option for a man who doesn't like the recoil of the 30-06.

Sheesh.
 
There is so much ignorance on display here on this thread. For once and for all, .243 and .260 Rem etc. do not work in an AR15. When most people refer to an AR or the AR platform they are talking about AR15s not the bigger heavier and much more expensive AR10. They are two different platforms altogether.

So one last time, .308 Winchester class cases are too long to fit in the AR15 magazine well. If you want to hunt big game with your AR15 at realistic distances the 6.8 SPC is a godsend. If you want to play with your online ballistic calculator, shoot zombies at 1000 meters or think anything under .30 caliber isn't...manly enough for you, shoot whatever you enjoy.

As to Constructor's elk, the man is not irresponsible at all. He's been after that animal for a few years now and passed up several opportunities with a muzzle loader because the elk was out of responsible range. The man knows his capabilities and his gear inside and out.
 
Paladin_Hammer said:
Please note, unless Ruger makes a Mini-14 that doesn't shoot like all crap, please don't say anything about AR-style or "evil" rifles. He won't shoot them because "I never shot a deer on a battlefield" mumble "whoever needs an assault rifle to kill a deer has the skill of a blind man".

It does not look like he wants an AR anyway, so this whole conversation about what can fit in AR's and what can't is a moot point.
 
Why are we talking about calibers traditionally associated with military style gas guns if your pops is a bolt gun guy?
Because the cartridges discussed (7.62x39 and 6.8 SPC) are low-recoil deer cartridges, what he apparently wants.
 
Bolt gun

If you like bolt guns, and I with you on that one, for deer hunting.....something in .260 Rem or 6.5x55 Swede would seem to fill the bill nicely. Certainly works for me, and my wife is very happy with the low noise, low recoil Swede......here she is with her Tikka T3 in 6.5 swede and a DRT wild hog a couple of weeks ago.......
 

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