61 navy trouble with wedge swelling lol

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by Brick196, Mar 6, 2021.

  1. Brick196

    Brick196 Member

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    so i buy a Uberti 61 navy all steel revolver the other day took it apart cleaned it all up slicked up and smoothed out all the internal parts got it working nice and smooth.the wedge works perfectly so far. about the 3rd time i tare this gun apart i start having trouble with the wedge spring i think nothing of it thinking the spring is just sprung and tight so i put the gun away. today i get the gun out go to field strip it and the wedge is really tight so i grab the rubber mallet and 2-3 wacks later its out. I do what i tore it down to do i go to put it back together and start feeling some resistance when putting the barrel assembly on it didn't want to slide over the 2 little pins but it went on. So time for the wedge i get 3/4 threw and it stopped so i get the mallet and 2 taps later its really tight cylinder wont spin and wedge isn't even threw the other side and its way to tight.
    this gun is unfired it has been in my unheated garage temps cold but above freezing.
    *** can be going on here? I've been shooting percussion revolvers for years and own several remingtons and even the coveted ruger old army.
    I’ve had colt styles before and for some reason always end up trading them off because of crap like this. How ever i picked up this stinking 61 colt navy and i can’t put it down i love how it fits my hand and the handling and the way it points i know i'm going top love shooting it at least i hope so despite the cap jambs.
    could the wedge or gun be expanding in the cold {makes no sense}
    Any help would be appreciated i would really like to keep this one. lol
     
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  2. Jackrabbit1957

    Jackrabbit1957 Member

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    You have a short arbor, the gun is trying to wreck itself because of it, I am willing to bet that once the arbor is correct the other problem will be gone. Uberti's fix was to taper the arbor for a sorta press fit into the barrel lug, instead of just making it bottom where it should. You can add washers into the hole untill you get the wedge to fit without binding the cylinder, that should fix the problem until you come up with a better more permanent fix. I can do the permanent fix, so can Outlaw kid and 45dragoon. Pm me if you would like to discuss it further.
     
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  3. Brick196

    Brick196 Member

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    well why did it fit at first now not at all this gun is new unfired. the wedge was to loose at first i had to turn the screw out to hold it now the wedge wont even go in.
     
  4. Brick196

    Brick196 Member

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    i have a 51 navy i took the wedge from it and put in it. it works but this whole ordeal makes no sense to me. i could see if i was out shooting and things happened but the gun has never seen the range. parts go out of spec [so to speak] just sitting on the shelf come on now. parts fit one day not the next and the thing was never moved. evil spirits at work?
     
  5. Jackrabbit1957

    Jackrabbit1957 Member

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    I missed the part about it not being fired, it's still the arbor issue, possibly a machining error or a burr in the hole in the barrel lug. Something is changing every time the wedge is removed and installed. Take a close look at the wedge slot and the arbor and socket in the barrel lug, might see something there. Another thing to check, use a Sharpie marker and color the arbor where it goes into the barrel lug, reassemble, take it apart and see if there's a particular area that's showing lots of contact.Hope this helps.
     
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  6. Brick196

    Brick196 Member

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    ok sounds like a good place to start. yea this gun is unfired the wedge went from pretty much fitting perfect to not at all just sitting on my bench i dont get it
     
  7. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    When the arbor is short, the wedge depth can put upward pressure on the arbor, enough pressure to change the barrel-cylinder gap and affect the point of impact through barrel alignment.

    A new gun hasn't even been broken in yet, and maybe it needs time to settle in.

    These diagrams illustrate it: --->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/diagrams-how-to-adjust-the-colt-lug-joint.873231/

    Caution: Don't make any permanent adjustments based on the diagrams. They're for illustration only.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
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  8. Cowhide Cliff

    Cowhide Cliff Member

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    Fix the short arbor then fit the wedge. First thing that needs to be done with EVERY SINGLE Uberti Colt style percussion revolver. I can not understand why Uberti will not fix this issue that everyone that knows anything at all about them knows exists and has been this way with Ubertis since the 1970s at least. Biggest reason to buy a Pietta.
     
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  9. woodnbow
    • Contributing Member

    woodnbow Contributing Member

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    Trying to wreck itself? Hyperbolic much? This pistol was fired tens of thousands of times over a period of 50 years. Last year I “fixed” the arbor for what it’s worth. Good thing too. The gun was apparently on the verge of self destruction. None of these were “fixed” until last year. No wrecks so far, they’re holding up a lot better than their owner, that’s a certainty. 8ED241C9-932A-46FF-A3F1-EFA8A988A73F.jpeg 0DC50497-444E-4588-BFA4-6FECD5C39BAF.jpeg
     
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  10. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    Didn't know the Jackrabbit was a 'smith. ! My advice is, when ever you buy a new C&B revolver, Don't have it shipped to your house. Have the retailer ship it to The Kid, the Goon, or Jack the Rabbit, have them sort it out and tune it, and then sent home to you. More than well worth the expense. Keeping the retail price down on these revolvers, by making a gun that does not work right, right out of the box, makes no sense to me. Imagine if S&W dropped their revolver prices by a couple of hundred bucks, but you had to take them apart and work on them, or send them to a gunsmith to get them to work right? !!!!
     
  11. Jackrabbit1957

    Jackrabbit1957 Member

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    Had my own Walker as well as an 1860 do the frame stretch, as I stated earlier I missed the unfired part. Seems as though these pistols are individuals and some may go quite a while before showing signs of damage if any. After reading the OP a second time I also picked up on how the barrel to cylinder gap changed when the wedge was tapped in, again a symptom of a short arbor. FWIW I looked at a cartridge conversion 1851 that was in .44 special a few weeks ago, this was a Uberti, dedicated cartridge gun, not a C&B originally, and same issue with short arbor and cylinder bind if wedge tapped in past a certain spot.
     
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  12. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Nope, not an overstatement. They show up here all the time with deformed wedges as well as deformed wedge slots in the barrel. Deformed from firing the particular revolver that has a short arbor. Soft wedges are poor devices for holding the two assemblies together (hard wedges may buy time and there's always anomalies). Once loose, the barrel slot gets hammered as well. The shooter didn't bend the wedge, the forces of the revolver firing bent the wedge. That being the case, it's more akin to the idea of "self destruction". Or, I guess one could argue that pulling the trigger is what bent the wedge . . . or putting blk powder in the chamber . . . or the bullet/ball in the chamber . . . that's a long, useless road to go down.

    In the case of the OP, he obviously doesn't know anything about this subject (which has been posted about for years, and years on a seemingly weekly basis). Posting about how yours lasted tens of thousands of rounds won't help his get better or fix his problem. Maybe yours has a frame with better heat treating, as well as the arbor and the wedge . . . whatever yours has going for it, his (and just about all the other repros ever produced) doesn't.

    Some folks have never broken a hand spring. Some never a bolt/trig combo spring. Some never a bolt arm.
    I've broken all of the above as well as a couple of mainsprings and even bent a Remington frame just shooting/loading it . . . some folks get all the luck!!

    So, I'm one who has also described the short arbor problem as "self destruction" and I don't exaggerate or overstate the reason ( it's not needed with the posts that have been posted on this subject), it's just easier to describe it that way and paints a sufficient mental picture rather than a long, drawn out post such as this one has become.
    Obviously, since he hasn't even fired the revolver in question, just the disassembly / re-assembly has allowed enough "clearancing" to attain cylinder lock-up. One doesn't need to shoot an Uberti (or any other makes excluding recent Pietta's) to drive a wedge in far enough to lockup the cylinder. It's just more evidence that the problem exists and it's an easy fix, and once fixed, the revolver will more than likely be an excellent shooter!!

    To the OP, you don't have a "swelling wedge" problem, you have "short arbor syndrome".

    I'm tired,

    Mike
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
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  13. Bibbyman

    Bibbyman Member

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    Some people can, "Tare up an anvil in plowed ground.", as the old saying goes.

    I've always dreaded having our oldest sun help us. Seems like everything he uses breaks. I think he inherited it from his mother. I often get, "Here, See if you can fix this.". Or, "I can't get this started.".
     
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  14. Jackrabbit1957

    Jackrabbit1957 Member

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    Thanks Mike.
     
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  15. Cowhide Cliff

    Cowhide Cliff Member

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    Why did you bother fixing it then if it was so perfect otherwise?
     
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  16. Brick196

    Brick196 Member

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    lots of info here. what to do next. I still haven’t had a chance to shoot the gun yet. I did take the wedge out a old Hawes 51 navy that fits better. so the short arbor issue what happens if I shoot it?does it get worse or no big deal?I should of known better and just stuck with the Remingtons no problems at all with the 58s just not as pretty or feel as good. **** this is my 3rd or 4th colt I will be trading off. ***
     
  17. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    It's an easy fix. Just fix it and keep it. You'll probably end up liking it more than the Rem.

    Mike
     
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